General Chat

Oh, Stray, I don't get to have an opinion, I know, I'm a foreigner.

Just like all good English have no opinion about anything anywhere else in the world.

Muffy, I'm still not understanding how anyone can tell from a council tax bill what portion of it is going to support the cause of special rights for gay men and lesbians.

I mean, I'm actually quite sure than none of it is, but I'd still like somebody to explain it to me.

For national taxes, it's actually quite simple. If one doesn't want to do it one's self, I'm sure there are groups (there are here) who analyse the budget and make it easy to understand what percentage of the budget / your taxes is going to pay for what.

Joy, actually, Canada looks big on a map but the habitable / farmable area is really quite limited. Otherwise our population wouldn't be as small as it is.

And the fact that our population is 1/2 yours actually makes it *harder*, not easier, to absorb the same number of immigrants - because the public infrastructure (roads, schools, sewers) are set up for a certain population.

Why don't I kick off on my own country's government?

Maybe you'd like to rephrase that. Do I kick off on my own country's government?

Have you read any of my comments about my country's government? If you had, you wouldn't have asked that question. I can't answer that question any more than you can answer "have you stopped beating your dog?"

You don't beat my dog.
I don't *not* criticise my government.

I despise my government. I hate it with a white hot passion. I am following avidly as the tale of the Canadian military transferring prisoners to Afghan authorities who *tortured* them plays out, with the government still refusing to release information or answer questions.

I *want* our vile conduct in Afghanistan to be exposed. I *want* the world to see our vile, vicious right-wing government for what it is. I *want* all decent Canadians to be embarrassed by our government's conduct. I want everybody to see exactly what we get when we vote for scum like this.

I know that a whole of Canadians don't give a * about what happens to Afghan prisoners. But if the rest of the world voices its opinions about what we have done, a few Canadians might find that their smug self-satisfaction about what great "peacekeepers" we are isn't working any more, and might be unhappy enough about the international criticism to vote decently.

I can dream.

My government got fewer than 4 of 10 votes cast in the last election. But we will be judged internationally by what it does. You think I don't have opinions, and voice them, about people who voted for the Conservative Party in Canada? Ha. Wrong guess!

"My late sister was vehemently against any part of her council tax being appropriated for 'lesbian and gay rights'."

SC, I've asked and asked *what that means*, but you still haven't told me.

Joy i think you might not be accurate in saying that....it would depend on what you were prepared to go without. It would certainly change the agriculture / farming of this country and its eating habits...but i don't think in theory that it would be impossible by any means.

you do get to have an opinon hun, but dont be so agressive to people whos opinons are dfferent to yours, and dont go to the extreme of things, and twist peoples words, just coz there not of the same thinking as yours

xxxx

so who do you vote for janey if your governmentis so bad
or do you also waste your vote
by the way i dont read your views on your government
as an other countries politics are none of my business

also my dog has never been beaten
if he had he might not be
the bleddin nightmare he is now (naughty)

If you lived in the UK you would know that the full breakdown of expenditure for the previous fiscal year is fully detailed in the local County Council's annual report for that year, which usually accompanies the current year's demand, which in Wales, provides the anticipated department liabilities.

Rose i was watching a agricultura program on sky the other night
and they said we do not have enough arable land
to grow enough food in this country
as we have 1000 people per square mile

My council tax (local tax) bill is fully itemised and every payment to any organisation is listed on that bill.

I'll be completely truthful and say...and i'm not proud of this...I just clock the increase every year and tut..which IS disgraceful and I don't really take a lot of notice of where it goes to..but councils are held accountable for the money that they spend and it is listed and there for all to see every year when you get your council tax bill.

As Kitty has said...income tax and NI is taken directly out of wages so there's not the same opportunity to deduct like there is with council tax...unless you are self employed and pay your tax bill at the end of the tax year. xx

Joy i didn't see it...but this site says otherwise

http://www.go-self-sufficient.com/national.htm

What IS true perhaps is that Britain could not be self-sufficient in food if we all retained the life styles we now choose to live.

Hold on -- "your county's immigration policy's is much stricter than ours"

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/media/releases/2009/2009-02-20.asp

Canada, pop about 33 million
immigrants in 2008 - 247,202
(Also 193,061 temporary foreign workers)
I can't find good figures about emigration, but it is quite low.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_Kingdom_since_1922

UK population about 60 million
Immigrants in 2008: 590,000
427,000 people left the UK
Net migration: 163,000


So basically, Canada, with half the UK's population, took in way more immigrants than the UK.

How does that make our immigration policy much stricter than the UK's?

I'm not getting this. People saying over and over that council tax is broken down, etc. etc.

So **what part of it** is "being appropriated for 'lesbian and gay rights'."??

Where does it say "lesbian and gay rights" on your council tax bill???? And what exactly do those taxespay for?

Ah, maybe

"every payment to any organisation is listed on that bill"

Hmm. So if a GLBT organization gets money, it is money for the gay rights cause.

If a religious group gets money, it couldn't possibly be to run a soup kitchen or drive cancer patients to hospital. It must be to promote the Christian cause. I guess.

maybe so Rose not the first time conflicting accounts of a subject lol the program i watched was trying to get people to grow more food themselves and used the subject of the lack of arable land to push their facts

"so who do you vote for janey if your governmentis so bad "

Uh ... another party? The one my own MP represents in Parliament? Yes, I think so.


"also my dog has never been beaten"

Yes. And I have never *not* criticized my government's immigration policies. In fact, I used to be on television quite often, doing just that ...

LOL I haven't a scooby what it does or what it doesn't pay for just WHO it goes to...as I said...the payments are listed...I personally don't bother to clock them or question them. Though I know I should.

BUT I have no problem with people knocking a small amount off if THEY disagree with the way THEIR money is being spent by the local council as long as they pay the majority of it...for public services and such like.

xx

Okay, I get it.

It's okay to deduct payments for whatever you like from your council taxes, because you *can*, and because you're so very moral.

It's okay for said very moral people just to pay their national tax bill, part of which pays for bombs dropped on other people's children, and say/do nothing.

Check.

NO the difference is with the income tax they have no choice ..
so whether or not you object to the war you're stuck with paying it anyhow...
With local tax they do have a choice so why not exercise that choice.

And yes...if a person has a strong objection to the way the council is spending their money...why not deduct it? They work for US after all don't they? you wouldn't pay a restaurant bill if you thought the food was rubbish or it wasn't what you ordered...as long as the majority was paid i really don't have a problemxx

off to watch MOTD.

Some things trump politics and footie is one of them

lol xx

Correct me if I am wrong but the generally accepted size of Canada is 3511003 sq mi
The UK is 94526 sq mi.

Teensy weensy difference there when you are accommodating 33m people as opposed to the UK's estimated 74m.

Before you tell me that a fair amount of that is water, yes I have googled that too...

UK Canada Relative
size
Ca/UK

Our population density is:249 people per sq km
Canada's is: 3.5

How lovely to be in the enviable position to preach!

Actually, you don't have a choice - not in any sense but the most nonsensical one.

I have the choice of walking out on the street and smashing one of my neighbour's window.

The fact that I *can* do it doesn't mean it's a "choice", i.e. something that the rest of society should tolerate.

Why not exercise that "choice"?

I dunno. Maybe because it's an immoral choice? Quite apart from it being immoral to try to deny one's fellow members of society what they apparently need. It's just immoral to do it at other people's expense.

I mean, it has occurred to us that if 50% of the population "chooses" not to pay some or all of its council taxes, for whatever reason, the other 50% are going to be making up for it, right?

How about: someone thinks that people who have not bothered to save for their retirement should not be given housing at public expense once they're old, and chooses not to pay the portion of their local taxes that pays for old people's housing? Or heck, bus passes.

That's a "moral" position. The idea that people should not be *forced* to pay for other people's bad choices - or needs of any kind. If someone wants to do that, they can donate to the charity of their choice. Nobody should be forced to pay taxes for that, any more than they should be forced to pay taxes for services to the GLBT community.