General Chat

where ? weston super mare where do you think ?

i actually wrote a book about it . but just keep slinging the insults at folks , don't you worry about it lol

your problem ? you just think you know everything .

and this thing about freedom of speech . well theres limits you know . like for example you couldn't sit in the middle of a crwded cinema and shout " fire " could you ?

but then you as the hot shot lawyer would know that wouldn,t you .

want to know why this degenerated ? cos when someone dares to disagree you get personal .

simples

Fee xx

and i,m going in the bath

thanks to littlebugler chris and all the other servicemen and women where ever they are because we can sleep safe in our beds tonite because of them

Fee xx

jedward want Ice Ice Baby?

So, Just Fee, how exactly is you doing work with orphans inside England under no threat from anyone an answer to my question:

"You ever put your safety and possibly life on the line in the service of victims of a murderous regime?"

Your safety and possibly life were on the line ... in Weston super Mare?


Here, Lisa JJ.


1/ Why do you "virtually hold all UK soldiers serving in Iraq in contempt with a dollop of hatred thrown in"?

JaneyCanuck Today at 18:19
"I pretty much have contempt for most in the US and virtually all in the UK who are 'serving' in Iraq, however. Pure contempt, with a dollop of hatred thrown in."

Nonetheless, that is not a "generalization". It is a statement of my feelings / opinion.

The invasion and occupation of Iraq are illegal under international law and not in any way otherwise justified (as an invasion of Rwanda might have been, or an invasion of Sudan might be, based on overwhelming international opinion about humanitarian aid that is not yet codified in international law or sanctioned by international practice).

That's enough, really. The fact then that the infrastructures of the country have been destroyed - material and social - and thousands upon thousands of non-combattants have been killed and more maimed, and atrocities have been committed by the occupying forces ... I need some further reason, something you might not already be aware of, to feel contempt for participants in the action? Do none of them have free will?


Anyone who wants to claim that three short paragraphs are beyond their comprehension - be the claim true or false - has my pity if it's true, and my contempt if it's false.


All of which was pretty much summed up, of course, by:

JaneyCanuck Today at 19:07
If it is my opinion that the invasion and occupation of Iraq is illegal, unjustified and all-round wrong to the point of evil, what would you expect my opinion to be of the people who perpetrate it?


Which really strikes me as pretty succinct.




2/ Would you go to RAF Lyneham and repeat your above comments as the flag draped coffins appear from the rear of the aircraft?

I'm tired of searching the back pages of this thread.

The implication was plainly that I was a coward.

If not that, the implication was that I am a horrible human being.

If I happened to encounter Margaret Thatcher's family grieving at her funeral, I would feel no need to express my opinion of her to the family, any more than I would feel any need to express my opinion of perpetrators of the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq to their families. Even though Margaret Thatcher was without question a more disgusting human being than most any soldier in Iraq could dream of being.

THIS is a discussion about a particular subject. In this discussion, I have expressed my opinions about that subject. And, of course, had them repeatedly distorted and been personally attacked.

Ceremonies for mourning the deaths of individuals are NOT discussions of ANYTHING.

So your question, Mr. Bugler, was just another tired attempt at character assassination.

I have no idea why my fingers decided that Bugler was spelled with an 'a' despite the evidence in front of my eyes. My humble apologies for my fingers ignoring what my eyes saw.

Pleased to see this survived without getting too abusive. Janey I appreciate that no you did not attack anyone on this thread anywhere on it, for that thank you. It should be possible to debate and agree to disagree without resorting to personal insults like wind yer neck in no matter how incensed somebody elses views make us. I guess it has run its course now but I will leave it overnight for the night shift. Many thanks to all who contributed, whatever your views.

Yes, LisaJJ, and if I had used Stephen Harper as my example, I would have been speaking a language no one else speaks. Who here actually knows the name of the Prime Minister of Canada?

Much as every single aspect of Harper and everything he has ever said or done makes me puke, I would feel no need to express that feeling/opinion to his children at his funeral. And I really can't imagine why anyone would even consider asking me whether I would do that.


Well, that's not true. I don't have to imagine it; I know perfectly well what the reason was.

Oh dear, Staffordshire Col, just a tad behind the times there, werencha?


I watched an hour of BBC news this morning.

How much CBC did you watch?

Well I am off to bed, it would be good if this was still here in the morning.

We don't have a channel CBC? oops wrong again

"Wrong again"?

That's just bizarre.

I get BBC World on cable in Canada.

If you don't get CBC News Network or some equivalent where you are ... well, I guess it explains part of why I know so much ... more. I admit that my subscription to The Guardian/Le Monde lapsed a while back, though.

But never fear, you can learn things on the internet too. There's cbc.ca, ctv.ca, thestar.ca, globeandmail.ca ... the world is so full of such wonderful things, there's just no reason at all to get all one's news and views from the Daily Mail!

Any reason you've decided this thread should be all about me and for you to repeatedly express your pointless opinions about me? The thread originator has asked several times that her thread not be abused for that purpose.



LisJJ, I have no idea why you want me to look at Harper's home page.

Oops sorry we don't receive Canadian TV on our satellite service - don't think there's much demand for it. So my apologies for not knowing what CBC is.....By the way love the fact that you seem to think The Guardian was wildly read in the UK ever worth a subscription....hilarious.

Oh, Staffordshire Col. I also read The Economist. And of course I find your thoughts about The Guardian even more entertaining. But why would you suggest that I think it is "wildly" (widely?) read? I certainly know it isn't in these particular parts. It tends to contain ideas ...

That I watch the BBC regularly, while you don't know what the CBC is ... speaks for itself, eh?


LisaJJ, I have not once suggested that anyone, anywhere, anytime, let alone anyone in this thread or on this board, should not state any opinion.

(With the qualification that the expression of ignorant bigotry is not stating an opinon, it's just expressing ignorant bigotry. This is NOT in reference to anything in this thread.)

I found the opinions expressed in the nasty "poem" quoted on this board to be not just nasty, but lies. It is a lie, a particularly disrespectful and vicious lie, to say that no journalist should be thanked for freedom of the press, no poet should be thanked for freedom of speech, etc. etc. It is a lie to say that soldiers are solely responsible for the rights and freedoms we have. That is what the "poem" said. It really is that simple.

(With the qualification that the expression of ignorant bigotry is not stating an opinon, it's just expressing ignorant bigotry. This is NOT in reference to anything in this thread.)

Well i must be thick as dog poop........

I guess that would make two of us. Because I have no clue what point you might be making.

irony is lost on you isn,t it ? it was in Bosnia you stupid idiot !

just reading your opinions your not a very nice person are you . glad your not my neighbour .

that,s some chip you are carrying i feel sorry for you

goodnight all and i.m glad i live safe in england protected by the best armed forces in the world ! !

Fee xx

p.s. and what exactly did maggie do to you lol disagree ?

Sleep tight, Just Fee. Be sure not to let any ideas disrupt your dreamland.

There was no irony in your post. Sarcasm, maybe. Gosh, yes, it was lost on me. I still don't know whether you were ever in personal danger, but oh well. I also don't care.

I don't know anything about your personal history -- but then I never made any allegations, or asked any incivil questions, about it. It's irrelevant. As is my own. You are perfectly entitled to have and express opinions, even if all you had ever done in your life were dust and bake cookies.

But I'm the one who has had allegations and accusations and insults flung at me about mine. Huh, eh?

Drat, I knew I'd seen this hoary chestnut here somewhere, and then I couldn't find it.

Just Fee: "and this thing about freedom of speech . well theres limits you know . like for example you couldn't sit in the middle of a crwded cinema and shout " fire " could you ?"

Yes ... and ...?

Did my expressing an opinion on the internet about the tripe I commented on cause a stampede in which people were injured, or did you think it was likely to do so?

Are you suggesting that there is some other limit that should apply to prevent me from expressing such an opinion?

-- The limit in this instance is called private property; if the owner of this property doesn't want such an opinion expressed here, that is its prerogative entirely. But you seem to think the "fire/crowded theatre" limitation is somehow relevant here, and I'm danged if I can see it myself.

Dear Janey

Hello

If you feel so strongly about matters, why do you not lobby your parliament or join a peace group, instead of using GR?

Best wishes
x

I will defend to the last Janey's right to express her views without being maligned by others


I may not agree with her in all respects ............ but that doesn't mean that I won't stick up for her right to express those views.


I have to say that the record of US and British troops in Iraq is not spotless ................. both have committed atrocities, and rapes


Just as soldiers in wars since time immemorial have committed rapes and atrocities.


It used to be expected that the "victors" would take their spoils, be it in goods or raping women (or raping children and boys). That's really why all the citizens of a city or state would run to the hills when war began ............. not because they were so afraid of the battle but of the victors.

A hot topic internationally at the moment is the case of German women who were raped during WW2 by Russian soldiers when they overran parts of Germany.



But to be so deriding of someone's character is just to express your immaturity, and your inability to debate a topic rationally.



StaffordshireCol ......... as I come from the same country as Janey I have to tell you that I am not surprised that she has not heard of Lyneham. It has only very recently been on our news about the honouring of the killed from Afghanistan .... I think I saw the first news item about 4 weeks ago.


You see ....... we have our own Highway of Heroes ............. about 30 miles or so of Highway running between the base where our Canadian bodies arrive and Toronto where they are taken for autopsy. And Canadians have been standing along that Highway of Heroes ever since our soldiers were sent to Afghanistan 8 years ago.

There have been 136 coffins carried along that highway, which is always lined almost the whole way by people paying their respects.



I have to admit I was rather disgusted with what I did see of the last contingent from Lyneham ..... the soldiers' families standing out in the midst of the crowd, and being followed by camera crews photographing their distress.


The families of our soldiers meet the coffins on the base at Trenton, as they are taken off the plane and before they are put into the hearse for the journey along the highway.






I just wish to hell that everyone would get out of Iraq, the illegal war started by Dubya Bush to appease his father and Dick Cheney, and give up on the impossible-to-win war in Afghanistan. Let them kill themselves off ......... not our young men and women.


and I am so very thankful that our political leaders did not fall for the lies told by those two men, and so kept us out of Iraq.



sylvia

Elizabethofallseasons, if someone thinks that poets and journalists and clergy and politicians and lawyers are useless wastes of space who have contributed nothing to the rights and freedoms we have, why not write a letter to the editor instead of using GR?

Why are some people's opinions suitable for GR, and not others'?

What makes you think I don't do what you suggest I do?

My armed forces are not in Iraq. My armed forces were not in Vietnam. Not much point in my writing to my MP about them. And - as . I . have . said . - I am of two minds about Afghanistan. What I was doing, working, in alternation with this fun here, involved more reading on the subject -- specifically, the transfer of detainees to the Afghan authorities by the Canadian Forces. I continue to educate myself.