General Chat

Ann I think that maybe they were ordered to the workhouse but when they were told to enter, they backed out as the workhouse was a last resort. Thomas had a 7 shilling army pension and a labourers wage. He had 6 children so I think they never went to any workhouse, but the poor relief document probably wasnt written on to say that.

Ben

Ann

I have the marriage cert for Rose, although I can now confirm she did indeed marry again in 1911, I haven't yet worked out how this will help me with my research LOL Any ideas?

Have written to a Great Aunt in the vain hope she can give up some juicy titbits to help.

shelli,
Can you put all the info on the marriage cert on here please. i.e. date names occupations state (wid etc), witnesses, Fathers names/occupations.

Got to go shopping in a mo but will be back later this morning.

Ann
Glos

Marriage too place in Register Office Tonbridge Kent
30/09/1911

Samuel John Vitler
37
Bachelor
General Labourer
No father named.

Phyllis Rosetta Leach ( formerly Dayman spinster) 36
Divorced wife of Robert Leach
Laundress
Father Amos John Dayman dec'd general Labourer.

Both are living in Rams Hill ????? I can't read the bit under Rams hill, presume it'sa Kentish village??? Looks like Havermondin???

Witnesses M Larkin & H? Goad. No idea who these people are.


I have emailed National Archive for an estimate for the copy of Rose's divorce papers.

Please don't think I'm ignoring you but we've got a busy day today and we're off tomorrow ( I hope)But I will try and pop back at some point
Have a lovely holiday, if we don't speak beforehand
xx

Here is the family in 1881 I think.

Amos J. Deyman
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Amelia J.
Gender: Male
Where born: Deptford, Kent, England

Civil Parish: Shoreham
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Street address: Cottage Dunstall Farm
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Ag Lab

Registration district: Sevenoaks
Sub registration district: Shoreham
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
James Collins 32
Amelia J. Deyman 24
Amos J. Deyman 26
Clare E. Deyman 2
Fanny E. Deyman 4
Fanny M. Dolley 56 Mother in law
George Dolley 16 brother in law
Richard Dolley 27 brother in law.

so if you don't have them Phylis's Grandparents were ?? Deyman and Clare E Dolley.


Ann
Glos

But this is interesting, living next door:-

William Leach
Age: 34
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Rosina
Gender: Male
Where born: Horton, Oxfordshire, England

Civil Parish: Shoreham
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Street address: Cottage Dunstall Farm
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Ag Lab

Registration district: Sevenoaks
Sub registration district: Shoreham
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Edith M. Leach 1
Herbert E. Leach 3
Rosetta M. Leach 11
Rosina Leach 33
William Leach 34
William T. Leach 8


Relatives of Robert do you think?

Do you actually have a birth cert for Phyllis? If so who are her parents? are you sure she was always called Phyllis? Why can't I find her or Robert in 1881????

I think this is Phyllis in 1891

Phylis Rosetta Daymon
[Phyllis Rosetta Dayman]
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Relation: Nurse
Gender: Female
Where born: Hatstead, Kent, England

Civil Parish: Sutton
Ecclesiastical parish: St Nicholas
Town: Sutton
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Epsom
Sub registration district: Carshalton
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Amy Boxall 25
Emma Beatrice Cox 17
Ernest Cox 11
George Trevor Cox 14
Kate Cox 42
Katie Cox 12
Violet Gladys Cox 7
William Alfred Cox 48 surgeon medical practitioner
William Hudson Cox 16
Phylis Rosetta Daymon 16 nurse born Halstead
James Fleming 19


Halstead is adjacent to Knockholt.

This is probably a red herring but keeps niggling at me:
1881
Rose Dayman
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Emily
Gender: Female
Where born: Knockholt, Kent, England

Civil Parish: Shoreham
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Street address: Colgates Orchard
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Sevenoaks
Sub registration district: Shoreham
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Ellen Dayman 18
Emily Dayman 49 widow
Margaret Dayman 10
Rose Dayman 6
William Dayman 8


Looks like they could be related.

shelli, That is as much as I can find today. Robert William Dayman still eludes me I'm afraid. as does Phyllis in 1901. Or have we found her? Getting confused now. maybe if you haven't got any further by the time you return from holiday and I return at the end of september you could do a precis of all the information you have and what you still need.

Ann
glos

Ann

am sneaking on with towel wrapped round me should be getting ready for family party!!!!

One thing I forgot to say is Phyllis father uses his two names either way.

So the Amos you found in 1881 is actually Phyllis older brother, who also uses either name.!!

The one you found in 1891 as a nurse in Sutton is my Phyllis, as is the Rose in 1881 ( the one you felt was a red herring.) Her dad died just after her birth in 1876.

I do have Phyllis birth cert 1875 states her father is John Amos Dayman and her mother is Emily Taylor. It's their marriage I can't find.

Not located Phyllis or her son Robert in 1901 yet. And yes the Leach neighbours may well be related.


Will read this in more detail when I can, but just wanted to add quick reply.

n

Hi Ann

Has anyone found Emma Auber on 1841 yet?

I have another mystery to solve. Here are the details:-

My 4xgreat grandparents George & Sarah Coombs had their first son Matthew George Coombs in Holborn, London in 1812, 2 more who died in infancy and my great, great, great grandfather William Thomas Coombs born in Sep 1828 in Soho, London.

I cannot for the life of me find a marriage in London for George and Sarah. I have been there and checked churches that arent on the IGI to no avail.

George was last seen and heard of in March 1830 when William was baptised. He vanished off the face of the earth it seems. Later on it appears that Sarah was known as Sarah Bradford. Matthew Coombs wed in 1835 and 1845. Sarah Bradford was a witness to both weddings, but in July 1835, another witness was a James Bradford.

In the 1841 census Sarah was in Carburton Street, Marylebone, London, a singlewoman, laundress with a 12 year old son William, who would have been the same age and forename as William Coombs. Sarah registered the deaths of Matthew Coombs eldest son who died in infancy and his first wifes death. I think that she was the same Sarah who was once wed to George Coombs.

In the 1841 census, there was a James Bradford living just round the corner from Sarah. He was a labourer and of similar age to Sarah and both not born in London. James had two children Henry and Frances with him. James was a baker at some stage. The mother was Amey.

James Bradford wed Amey in 1825 and he signed his name. The James Bradford who witnessed Matthew Coombs wedding with Sarah put an X, th mark of. Trouble is, I cannot find any other likely James Bradfords in London that would be another candidate for the one who witnessed Matthew Coombs wedding in 1835. I cannot find any James Bradford deaths in the West London area from 1837 to 1841.

James who wed Amey was born in 1792 in Effingham, Surrey, the son of Henry and Susannah Bradford. He didnt have a sister Sarah though. Henry had two known brothers who were having children from 1798 onwards. I am in a bit of a quandry now as I did think the James Bradford living round the corner from Sarah in 1841 was a relation.

I cannot find a marriage for a Sarah Coombs to a Mr Bradford at all on IGI, Pallots and I have even checked at London record offices for unindexed churches. I am sure from the evidence that Sarah Bradford is the one who wed George Coombs but am stuck with this James Bradford thing. Could it be two different James Bradfords or were they another relation besides siblings?

Ben

Shelli, I can't find a marriage either. maybe they were not married!!

Ann
glos

Ben,
I am hoping that Susan will look in later at this one as it is a long one and I have a lot to do in preparation for my holiday next weekend.

However, One thing James Bradford who signed his name and James Bradford who made his mark could well be the same person as sometimes they just didn't bother to sign.

Another thing, it is difficult to track Sarah without knowing her date and place of birth so could you add those please.

Ann
Glos

Hi Ann

Sarah was born in about 1791. She died in Feb 1851 aged 60 just before the 1851 census so at the minute her birthplace is unknown. She is in 1841 at 11 Carburton Street, Marylebone, aged 45, rounded down with a 12 year old son William, who I think is my ancestor William Coombs.

James Bradford is just round the corner from her at Upper Charlton Street aged 49, not born in county with a son Henry. He is the only likely James Bradford in the area at that time. James died in 1846 but someone has added him to GR and said he was from Effingham in Surrey. How she found that out I dont know if he died before 1851. There was one born in Effingham in 1792 though.

Ben

Ben

have you contacted the person to ask about james Ben?

Hi Ann

Yes but I havent go a reply. That was 4 weeks ago I messaged her.

James wife Amey seems to have vanished off the face of the earth in about 1837. I cannot find a death for her yet they had a child baptised in 1837.

Could Sarah have adopted James surname for some reason??????

Ben

They could quite well have lived together and she used his name. It happens now I am sure it happened then!

Ann
Glos

Hi Ann

Maybe Sarah was having a secret affair with James and then took his name and Amey may have run off or something. Amey just seemed to vanish.

Ben