General Chat

Staffs Col,

Child benefit has always been an enigma even since the 50 when my mum collected 5sd from the post office.

I agree yes it should be scrapped altogether, for anyone who earns more than the minimum wage, circa £10,000 per annum.

Tax relief should also be raised to this level, so as to stop the problem of people working earning less than they get on benefits and total benefits also capped at this level.

We should also scrap all benefits for anyone under the age of majority, i.e. 18. If you get pregnant then tough. Father or parents pay. No state handouts.

Jenny Wren,

You hit the nail on the head,. The entire system is far too complex (largely thanks to Gordon Brown, who has managed it (screwed it?) for the past ten years) and need scrapping from the drains up.

I for one object vehemently that nearly as much is spent on benefits as on the entire NHS. Nuf said.

this should be fun bring it on

if they can work , get them back in to work


Barrie

Years ago when my lovely OH, a highly qualified engineer, was made redundant at fifty years of age. The engineering industry in the UK was on it's knees through Maggie Thatcher in my opinion and no one wants to employ a fifty-year old. At the time it weas suggested that the unemployed clear river banks and such. He wrote letter after letter applying unsuccessfully for jobs and was nearly a year on £40 a week - only ever had been on the sick for one week in over thirty years. Never claimed benefits in his ife. The only reason he would have gone near a river bank at the time was to throw himself in.

Thank You Deanna Daff and Amanda for your kind words.
Im glad someone undertood what I had to say.
I tried very much not to make any claims. I didnt want hand outs..and the problems associated with making such claims and the stigma to.
But I had no choice..I had spend ALL my saving just trying to stave off making claims. But it was no use.
My partner only has a part time job..she is and has looked for full time..but yet unsuccessful. And with me in trouble phyiscally...I could no longer provide any monies towards..simpley..living.
This has also put stress on her...not only has my life changed ..but hers also. She to is suffering from (indirectly) from my condition.
It has brought on depression and high blood pressure to add to the problems I have...and I am now see..putting it simpley.. a shrink.

There is so much more to folks illness's than meets the eye.

This morning on tv this subject was discussed. And suggesting getting folks on Incapacity denifits to do "community work" for their benifits.
Isn't doing work for money "a job"?...Bet they wont pay the same.
And isnt "commuity work" associated with criminals?
Am I now a criminal because I have an illness?.
Maybe they should sort out the unemployed who can work 1st rather than picking on those who can't or have difficulties.
Or is it because they have tried that already and were unsuccessful..now looking to try something else.
Ill folk....yes...lets make their already miserable lifes more miserable..yeah that will work.
Other than this could make these folks even more ill and totally destroy what little life they do have left ..Who cares?...Were alright....we got good health....good jobs. Were the goverment and we'll do what ever we damn well please.!
If it makes the books balance..and makes us look like we actually do do some work for the HUGE wages and denefits we get.. then GREAT!

Use them up..spit them out.

Paul, I understand completely... as I told you , my big strong clever son... is in the same place as you are now.
His frustration is dreadful.

Ann, my husband too suffered under Maggie and many, many of our friends.
I was once asked if my husband had been looking for jobs (by a 'friend'!) and was able to tell him that we could paper the living room with rejection letters.... and that was only the ones who took the time to answer!
My husband did jobs all over the place *for his dole money*... he dug land and made gardens for factories which had been given huge amounts in 'grants' to bring industry into the town, only to leave the minute they had been paid out!!
He damaged his shoulder working. *for his dole money* in a tyre factory which disappeared to start up elsewhere under a different name.
He worked in a heavy industry plant *for his dole money* a job which nearly killed him.
All these places were paid to come to our town..... who exactly is it that is 'draining' our coffers???
Deanna X

I admit I was fortunate in my claim for DLA on the first application supported by my GP I had an indefinite award for highest mobility and middle rate care. I have multi site osteo arthritis and hemiplegic migraine. However this never stopped me working when I was well and until May have always worked full time.

I currently receive JSA through unemployment but the Job Centre really wanted to put me on Incap. Errr no way, you can point me towards the scrap heap doesn't mean I have to jump on it!

Conversely daughter has MS has been turned down twice for any level of DLA and has now given up because she cannot face the humiliation again.

Just to add one of my family runs a fraud team but their funding is always being cut so they cannot afford to start more investigations. The idea of Joe Public being able to 'shop' people is still the best way to catch the cheats.

Jean - your daughter should definitely have automatic qualification....I hope she gets it as soon as possible xx

As for making claimants work for their benefit I am at a loss to understand this. Claimants should either be fit to work (JSA) or unfit (incap). I don't understand that proposal.

Sue xx

As I've said, I've worked within the system, and despite frequent changes, very little is achieved. For two years before I retired(eighteen months ago) where I worked was a pilot area for "helping" incapacity benefit claimants back to work.
Although it sounded emotive, the only compulsory part of it was the interview that they had to attend. Once there they were told that the jobcentre were here to help - should they feel that they at some time would be capable of working, they were also told about "Permitted work" which was a small amount of work you could do and still claim benefits, to see if you could manage a job. If you couldn't, then you couldn't. No one was forced back to work and I can't see that happeneing now. However, some genuinely wanted the chance to see if they could manage a job and were helped to do so. Some people who were off with depression actually found themselves getting less depressed (I must stress here that I've had depression so am not treating it lightly). I suspect that these new laws will be along these lines which have been piloted already.
Can you imagine the outcry if the government managed to kill off people who were genuinely ill by forcing them to work.
I have got to add here though that I worked for the jobcentre a long time and there are lots and lots of people who work the benefit system as well as you all know

following nearly a year on the dole my husband managed to find an excellent job which he enjoyed - a rep for a machine tool company - he used all his knowledge and expertise to build up a large portfolio of contacts in the South Wales area, and after nine or ten months, when they had all they wanted, this machine tool company terminated his employment - they had all they needed and they didn't have to cough up any redundancy money because it was under a year. His long term employer gave him the absolute minimum of redundancy they were committed to pay by government guidlines - a week's pay for every year - I think it was up to about twenty-five years, although he had been with them for over thirty. After being made redundant the second time he managed again to secure another engineering post but within about three weeks they went into liquidation. He then took a job delivering flowers for a local florist, and his last job as a nursing assistant in the local psychiatric hospital where I had worked for years. It was very humbling but he did it. The female nursing staff treated him abominably, although the patients loved him cos he spent time with them. Often when we were out shopping we had relatives coming up to us to talk to him and thanking him for what he had done for their relatives. He had to leave in the end because of what was nothing short of bullying in the work place. So please don't judge everyone on the dole as spongers, they are not!!!!! As you can no doubt tell I am still very bitter indeed about his treatment even though he has been dead for gong on six years - no way did he deserve to be treated like that - I could weep buckets over it and have in the past

Bless you Ann.
I know exactly how you feel.
when I hear people talking about how they have *the work ethic* I get so angry. People like our men who were made redundant and found it so difficult to find employment because in those days adverts for jobs would actually say on them.... no one over 40 need apply.... were men who had worked so hard all their lives.
My husband does not need any lessons in the work ethic.... he started work at 13 years of age. It followed many years of working with his father harvesting potatoes and other veg helping to feed the family.
Deanna X

well heres my ten penuth.
im all for those genuinly ill.they should have all the support and compassion they rightly deserve.
having said that i can think of 8 that i cant wait to see um get out of this lol.it,ll be the frst time they,ve done work in years.bloomin brill.im thinking karma here pmsl

thanks Deanna for understanding - obviously you have been there too!!! What I strongly object to is all those on the dole being tarred with the same brush - there are many like yours and my husband who really wanted to work but were denied. We all know there are benefit cheats - there are plenty in my own family I regret to say - it seems to be a way of life for some never ever to have a job. These are the ones who should be targetted.

Im going to read the whole thread Peter, but agree with people that those who deserve it should get everything. Sponging layabouts that live the life of riley at OUR expense should be weeded out and now!


Btw we both work but our child benefit is VITAL to us,


Caz xx

As some of you will know I am not one for promoting wholesale benefits (I have been called a right wing cretin by one GR member, but that is another story.)

No, if you are in need then fine by me, you should get all the support and help that you can. What I can't abide is the scroungers. Why should I pay tax which I would rather spend the money on my own family, to those who won't lift a finger.

One of the problems I suspect is where the line is drawn. How do decide when someone is an invalid or too ill to work? As has been said on many occasions, it is not always visible on the outside. So, how do you decide who is faking and who is swinging the lead?

The answer is not that easy, Jenny Wren has years of experience with the failings of the system, much of which is made worse by the complexity of it all.

Something has to give, either we pay more tax or the cost of benefits has to be slashed. One way or the other, something radical is needed.

My friend has very bad Rheumatoid Arthritis & on a DLA Review wrote-My incurable illness is still incurable..........they weren't happy.
She does have a point,instead of hounding people with illnesses that aren't going to improve & they have confirmation from a Consultant why don't they leave us alone & "hunt" the dodgy ones.I think if a cure was found for people who have genuine horrible illnesses/disabilities they'd be more than happy to go back to work-I would I'm bored rigid.

The system does need a shake-up, but so do attitudes. Firstly, nobody who is genuinely in need should lose benefits. People who are able to work should be given every incentive to do so. But can you force them? You have to make it significantly more attractive financially to be in work than out, either by abolishing taxes for the very low paid or increasing the minimum wage. Some employers have to change attitudes towards older workers. With an ageing population, pension deficits, and better health in later years, there are lots of well-qualified, experienced 'oldies' with plenty to offer the job market.

Peter - don't worry about 'name calling' - I've been called a bleeding heart and a do-gooder in the past, lol!

Maybe I shouldnt be getting benefit as hubby doesnt pay much tax and as I havent been able to work for 14 years havent paid it for that long, but then hubby doesnt claim he would rather work and earn a pittance than go on the dole, and I mean it is a pitance what he charges a day is what most tradesmen charge an hour but his view is rather have that than have to go and face the inqusition every 2 weeks and at least he can hold his head up and say he works for his.

Thing that gets me is if you are working but not claiming working tax credit but earning up to 14k you can get free school dinners if you work and claim it but still get under 14k you cant get it.

We struggle to pay dinner money each week but cant get help whereas if hubby wasnt working earning his pittance and on income support etc would get it.

All the systems are mad and dont seem to help the ones that need it.

Heres a controversial one as well, how about all the ones that keep having children just to keep getting extra money dont care who the fathers are cos if they cant trace them cant get money out of them so they will get it anyway.

d x

Well I'm off in the morning for a DWP medical......again........they wrote a total load of lies on my form last time.............it's taken me 18 months to get reinstated and now I have to start the whole thing over again.

The bones in my pelvis got broken in 1990.........if they haven't healed now I can't see any hope that one day soon I'll wake up pain free and able to happily join the work force.............what a farce......what a waste of money...........but it keeps other folk in work ..........so I'll grit my teeth and jump through the governmental hoops ( not literally.....wish I could :( )

all the very best for the morning Amanda - hope you get what you should be having - the system is for people such as you, not for the ones who should get an Equity card and take their place on the stage!!!

Ann XX

Thank you Ann...............last time I went in I did my usual "stiff upper lip ".........that is how I personally cope with my situation.......but "they" expect everyone to go for an oscar I think...........I learnt my lesson the hard way.
Oddly enough my brother works for the DWP and had said to me before I went last time " Mandy they are a bunch of bas**rds........they will seem all friendly and nice but don't believe a word of it"......I wish I'd listened to him then.