Genealogy Chat

I have three Harry Swifts born around 1879 in the Birmingham area on the census records all with the same fathers name of William, either he has been a busy man or I am going mad. William Swift was my great grand father married to this is where I hit a brick wall I dont know!!!
In 1906 Harry married my grandmother Florence Beatrice (nee Wingrove) from Birmingham.

Who was Harrys Mum.?
How can I find out is the obvious staring me in the face I need help please. regards Wendy

Do any of the Williams occupations on the census returns tally with the occupation on the marriage certificate.

Do any of the witnesses names hold any clues - can you tie them in to a particular family on the census.

What about the address - that's a long shot I know.

Gail.

Can you find Harry's death certificate?
That might have his date of birth on it perhaps.

An exact date would then let you find his birth certificate.

Sue

Did he have a middle name?

The BMD site has two possibles in the Birmingham area as Harry.

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

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Births Mar 1878 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Swift Harry Reginald Birmingham 6d 31

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Births Mar 1879
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Swift Harry Birmingham 6d 120

The other one was actually a Henry

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

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Births Dec 1878
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Swift Henry William Aston 6d 362

Do you know the names of any of Henry's siblings? Do any old relations talk of Aunts and Uncles by particular names? If so you can find them on the censuses with Harry.

Sue
x

Which census were you looking at?
I have just been and browsed the 1881 and I only found one Harry Swift with a father William. There are others of about the same age with differently named fathers.

This is the son of William I found.
Household:

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
William SWIFT Head M Male 36 Bromsgrove, Worcester, England Tool Broker
Ann SWIFT Wife M Female 35 Bromsgrove, Worcester, England Assistant To Above
Mary Jane SWIFT Daughter Female 14 Bromsgrove, Worcester, England Scholar
Harry SWIFT Son Male 3 Birmingham, Warwick, England
Annie SWIFT Daughter Female 7 m Birmingham, Warwick, England


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Source Information:
Dwelling 20 Tanter Street
Census Place Birmingham, Warwick, England
Family History Library Film 1341714
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 2990 / 84
Page Number 24

Alternatively if you look for Henry then you can see
Household:

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
William NICHOLLS Head M Male 41 Overbury, Worcester, England Labourer
Mary A. NICHOLLS Wife M Female 41 Cleobury Mortimer
Agnes L. NICHOLLS Daur Female 14 Overbury, Worcester, England Scholar
Annie A. NICHOLLS Daur Female 8 Overbury, Worcester, England Scholar
Henry NICHOLLS Son Male 4 Overbury, Worcester, England Scholar
Emily NICHOLLS Daur Female 2 Overbury, Worcester, England
Lucy NICHOLLS Daur Female 11 m Overbury, Worcester, England
Henry W. SWIFT Grandson Male 2 Birmingham, Warwick, England


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Source Information:
Census Place Overbury, Worcester, England
Family History Library Film 1341622
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 2580 / 20
Page Number 3

I did the search for birthplace in Warwickshire but living anywhere.

Sue

My Great grandfather William Swift was a blacksmith is it the same as tool broker. Harry Swift appears on the Bromsgrove boarding school census 1891 as a boarder. I phoned the school they said he was not listed same address same school its amazing what going on.

Sue
Cannot find death certicate either. Thank you for your help Kind Regards wendy

I wondered why young Henry might have been in a boarding school in 1891 and thought perhaps his father could have died.
I did a hunt for deaths of Williams between 1881 and 1891 in Warwickshire and it is possible that your William did indeed die then.

Deaths Sep 1882
Swift William 0 Aston 6d 171

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Deaths Sep 1885
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Swift William 59 Birmingham 6d 96

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Deaths Dec 1886
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Swift William 48 King's N. 6c 218

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Deaths Jun 1889
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Swift William 70 Aston 6d 158

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Deaths Mar 1890
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Swift William Jacob H 18 Aston 6d 194

Do any of the ages fit with any Swifts we've found so far I wonder? Worth keeping this on file while we try to puzzle it out.

Sue

I have just done another search of the 1881 census using both Harry and Henry Swift plus with head of household a William Swift. I looked in every county but the only suitable one I could see was that Harry whose father is the tool broker in Birmingham.
You say confidently that there are 3 Harry Swifts but I still can't see them in 1881. Who are the other ones? What details do you have?

Sue

I think that the William who was the tool broker lost his wife in 1888
Deaths Dec 1888
Swift Ann 42 Birmingham 6d 49

That William appears with his son Harry on the 1891 census

Name Relationship to
Head of H'hold Condition Sex Age Profession/Occupation
Disability Where Born Original
census
image

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SWIFT, Wm Head Widower M 46 Corporation Labourer
Bromsgrove
Worcestershire VIEW
SWIFT, Harry Son Single M 14 Electroplate Worker
Birmingham
Warwickshire VIEW
SWIFT, Annie Daughter F 10 Scholar
Birmingham
Warwickshire VIEW
ALBUT, Emma Housekeeper Single F 38 Housekeeper
Birmingham
Warwickshire VIEW

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RG number:
RG12 Piece:
2385 Folio:
120 Page:
29

Registration District:
Birmingham Sub District:
St Martin EnumerationDistrict:
29 Ecclesiastical Parish:
Bishop Ryder

Civil Parish:
Birmingham Municipal Borough:
Birmingham Address:
25, Ryder Street, Birmingham County:
Warwickshire

So if you are sure that the Harry in the school is your one in 1891 then the tool broker isn't your William.

I have just looked using Findmypast and I cannot see any Harry Swifts in Bromsgrove in 1891.

Which census records are you using? Can you post the results you have found with details?

Sue

I had this problem with my George Simmons b. 1842 as there are 3 likely possibilities. I ended up tracking all of them backwards and forwards on the censuses so that I could eliminate the two that were not mine. It's a long-ish job but at least you'll know which one is yours.

I also find that Henry / Harry are interchangeable!

Jill

Wendy

This is the marriage reference

Florence Beatrice Wingrove - Harry Louis Swift
Year of Registration: 1906 Q4 Aston Warwickshire
Volume: 6d
Page: 532

So he is called Harry Louis on his marriage certificate .. what was his occupation?

There are a couple of Harry Swifts in the pension records on Ancestry, one in particular is married to a Florence in the Birmingham area. Do you have any addresses on the marriage certificate or any childrens birth certificates.

Gail.

Wendy

This was what you said in the very first post on this thread.
"I have three Harry Swifts born around 1879 in the Birmingham area on the census records all with the same fathers name of William,"

I have looked several times and cannot find any evidence that there is any sort of problem. There is only one Harry/Henry Swift in and around Birmingham with a father called William as far as I can see. The one I think it is, was the tool broker's son. People often changed their jobs over time so I'd guess he might have been a blacksmith later.
I can't see the father William on the 1901 census so I think he was dead by the time Harry got married.

I'd be really interested to know what gave you the idea that so many Harry Swifts had fathers called William in Birmingham. Please post the details so we can clear this up.

Sue

Never thought about that one what info would I need, would it help. Regards Wendy

Yes but which one ??? many thanks for all your help regards Wendy

Hello Gail have not got William's marriage document only Harry's regards Wendy

Wendy

If you say you have seen three Harrys on a census then presumably you have made a note of which census and where?

Which date of census did you look at? Was it the 1881? If not then which one?

What were the addresses of the three Harry's you thought all had fathers called William?

Sue

Hello Sue, Going through all my research I am confused william Swift Bromsgrove census 1881 tool broker William census 1891 corportion laborer Harry electro plate worker Birmingham.
my Great grandfather William was a Blacksmith, Harry my grandfather was a engineer William had passed before Harry had married in1906 to Florence nee (Wingrove). Thank youSue for all your time and help Kind Regards Wendy