Genealogy Chat

Good luck, Sam. :-) Joy

Morning everyone, it is absolutely hammering down with rain here, although I don't suppose you need good weather for a funeral. The service is at 9.30am, and is within a stones-throw of my sister's house. She & my BIL are going to the service and then straight home. Things are a little strained between father & son to say the least, so they think it best not to go back to his fathers house afterwards. As for his grandad, bless him, he is so confused. He says he is NOT going to the funeral, and he will NOT pay for it. He offered his wife's clothes to the lady in the opposite flat on the same day she died :( They were together 52yrs he must be lost without her. My BIL has not stayed at my sister's since his Gran's death, he has spent most of his time with his grandad. This chap would probably not eat, nor would he see anyone if BIL did not stay there. Much as BIL's father has swooped in and organised the funeral, he want's nothing to do with his step-father at all. My sis & BIL have spoken this week with various people about getting his grandad the help he needs, but his grandad says he does not want any home help, nor to go into a home. What do you do when an elderly person digs there heels in like that? No one wants him in a home, but there has been an offer of home-help, meals on wheels etc... via the doctor, and grandad flatly refuses. His grandad is Ukranian, he cannot read or write in English, and he's not even sure how old he is. He knows his birthday is Feb 2nd, but he thought it was around 1927, no cert can be found. He lied about his age to get into the army as a young lad, and during his service he was put into a concentration camp, he escaped and fled to England. Here he met & married BIL's gran. What a life! They had no children together, she already had a 5yr old son (BIL's father) So all grandad has is my BIL. I know my BIL thinks the world of him but this is very difficult, BIL will have to back to work next week, he obviously does not like the idea of leaving his grandad alone. His grandad has become a little violent towards him too. No one wants to undermine his wishes, but does there come a point when we have to decide what is good for our parents/grandparents as they no longer see things clearly? Sam

So sorry to hear the news about BIL's Nan. Have been on holiday and just read the post. Linda x

Hi Sammy Such a sad situation. I think your BIL's Grandfather is being violent towards him because he is angry and upset at losing what he would consider his whole world. Lashing out is a way of dealing with his hurt and sorrow. My nana died 12 years ago and for the last 11 years my Grandad 'just wanted to be up there with his Angel'. My Grandad died last year in january but we all know he is with his Angel. He went downhill rapidly the last year or two so it is heartwrenching watching that happen. My two Aunties (his daughters) looked after him 24 hours a day between them and worked full time nightshift (one of them) and they were so lost when he passed over (even tho they knew he was where he wanted to be). My Grandad was Polish and in the same situation as your BIL's Grandfather - never knew his date of birth and was in both world wars - they gave him 24th Dec 1909 for his birth date as all papers were lost. Our family have been to Poland trying to trace rellies and have only found one distant cousin. I hope something can be sorted for your BIL's Grandfather. Thoughts are with you all today. Vikki xx

Sam Just wanted to say I am thinking about you all today and that the letter you wrote was really exceptional. Well done Sam. I hope BIL copes today. I know when my gran died I was devestated. Take care, Ann x

Dear Sammy, I really do feel for you and your family as I am in a similar boat. My Mum does have some help now but it is not enough as she really can't manage alone, she simply refuses to have any more help as there are other people to help out, actually there is only me, I work full time and am a single parent. She has been to hospital 3 times in the last 5 weeks, one resulting in a 10 day stay there. I wanted to say a couple of things to you, I hope it helps a bit. If he doesn't want any help and is as stubborn as my Mum, there is not much your BIL can do except give up his own life to become a carer, which is not really an option for most of us. Social Services advice to me was to stand back and not be there as often, it's not an easy thing to do, but after 6 weeks I am beginning to feel like I am working 7 days a week. The other thing is I am helping a elderly lady with her tree, she is in a home (and hates it) and gave me some very good advice, which is to leave them in their own home for as long as possible, these bereaved folks have already lost so much and can't cope with more change too soon. They seem to act like small naughty children would, but they may get better when the shock of losing someone after so long starts to wear off. I'm sure it's only grief that is making Grandad behave badly, or he resents BIL father butting in, but there is no excuse to treat BIL badly, my Mum has been awful to me, everything I do is either wrong or not good enough. You and your family are not alone, I'm sure there are many of us on here trying to cope with similar situations. My best wishes to you and your family. Amanda I hope I haven't posted anything that offends you x

So sorry about BIL's granddad's behaviour towards him but I can understand the poor man feels he has lost everything dear to him and he's lashing out at the person closest to him. I can understand him wanting to remain independent but if he isn't a danger to himself and can cook himself a meal then I'd let him be for the timebeing. Just ask BIL to pop around as often as possible and do a quick tidy up and perhaps ask one of the neighbours to keep an eye on him and if necessary give BIL a ring if things go awry. If he is likely to fall then have an emergency lifeline installed - the client wears a pendant and when pressed it alerts either the contact person or emergency services through the telephone. Social Services may do this for you. Instead of meals on wheels - in our area they have a weekly delivery of frozen meals which the client can pop into the microwave when required. There's even one company that delivers gourmet meals for a fiver!!!!! Alternatively a trip down to Iceland to stock the freezer with ready meals might be the answer. He could choose what he wants and gradually he may look forward to the trips and want to go himself. You can order from supermarkets who deliver too. If he is able you might find that he's off out and about and will get into a routine quite quickly, buying a paper, getting his pension etc. Unfortunately grief affects people in different ways but ask BIL just to bide his time and see what happens.

Sammy It never rains but what it pours! Does the old chap have any Polish contacts? I knew a Polish chap in exactly the same position as this and the Social Services came forward with the offer of accommodation in a 'Polish Village' - its a community of Polish people, all elderly now, who were put into temporary accommodation over here just after the War. Most of them are still there. If he is not interested, then, hard as it is, I would do as the previous poster suggested - don't be too eager to help him. As he gets used to his grief he may realise that he can't actually manage on his own and needs help - or maybe he WILL manage on his own.It could be pointed out calmly to him that being violent, and not eating or otherwise looking after himself, will be the quickest route to being forcibly put in care - he won't like that idea and it may pull him together. It is desperately sad but at the end of the day, the old chap is an adult, not a child and in my opinion anyway, for what that's worth, is entitled to grieve himself to death if that is what he so wishes. I know many people will not agree with this. I do hope things settle down - I think your BIL is a Saint, I really do. My best wishes to him. Marjorie

I know what you're saying with regard to BIL leaving his grandad alone. I must admit, it wouldn't have crossed my mind, I would have thought I must be there every spare minute, but I've spoken to my BIL today and the doctor has advised exactly what you are suggesting, leave him all day, as before, the only difference being his wife isn't there. My BIL is trying this as of today, Saturdays & Sundays are the nights he stayed at my sisters, Mon- Fri he slept at his grandparents. He's not ready to stay away a whole night yet, he would worry about his grandad too much. Both grandparents were hopeless individually, but managed to muddle through together. This became evident when each of them had seperate hospital stays recently. So today, BIL left grandad at 11am, and was not retutning til 10am. This will be the norm when BIL has to go back to work, so there is no other way really, especially as his grandad refuses any outside help. Thanks for all your ideas & comments and nobody ever offends me :) Sam

Nudge for Sammy. We're all hoping there will be some positive news soon for you and your family.

Hi everyone NOPE! No news on the ''Mother'' front as yet. I think that's it... She's not going to reply now, that's assuming she has received the letter from BIL and the card from me of course. There is a visit in the offing though, this month sometime, not sure when, but I'll be sure to let you know. As for grandad, I'm seeing BIL later today so I'll let you know how he's doing. I do know however that grandad did NOT attend the funeral. Sam

I couldn't help feeling there MUST be some criteria for establishing whether a person is being cared for properly. This has been nagging at me. What if they are not being looked after properly, being robbed, taken over by carers? SO I did some investigating: AGE CONCERN freephone 0800 00 99 66 If BIL rings them + explains HIS concerns re his mothers care they will help or give him a telephone number to speak to a local advisor who will help. ............................................................................... Regarding his Grandad there's Cruse Bereavement Care 0870 167 1677 (help for the bereaved + those caring for bereaved people) Hope this is of some help for BIL + others in his position. Ann xxx

Dear Sammy, As long is your thread is here I will read it. So sorry to hear Grandad didn't go, I was in the opposite situation, spent the night before at the hospital with my Mum and if they admitted her, which she needed, she wouldn't have been able to attend the funeral, so they let her go home. Hope you and BIL are ok as you can be. Love Amanda x

Hi Sammy So sorry to hear of all BIL's (and your) difficulties. Not sure whether you have told us and I missed it or not but can u say which town Mother is in? Beth :)

Like Gwyneth in Kent, I have been in a situation where a 'care taker' benefitted greatly by keeping family members away from a very ill family member. For months she wouldn't even let us have a phone conversation with her. We were not even aware that she was ill. We were always told that she was 'napping' or 'unable to come to the phone' I'm sure that the poor lady thought that we didn't care about her. Fortunately, I caught on to what the 'care giver' was doing when it was almost too late. I was with her when she died, and the lawyers took care of the 'care giver'. That is just my experience.I would advise your brother inlaw to go and see her as soon as possible. He is her next of kin, and I'm sure rightful heir and should be her executor.He has every right, and I am sure can handle it in a very diplomatic way. Good luck.

Morning all His mother is in Aberystwyth. I think half of him wanted to rush straight there (a 3 - 4 hr drive, he doesn't have a car) and the other half is saying ''but she doesn't want to see you'' His grandad has lost the plot, he's in a 3rd floor flat and throws all his rubbish straight out of the window! He walks to the shop for a newspaper and has usually got £800 in his pocket! He is telling people that his wife died 3yrs ago, bless him. BIL's grandparents had already been burgled twice, by conmen claiming to be from the water board etc.. They got them to watch a running tap whilst the men rummaged through the doors, they got away with £500 on one occasion. Isn't it sickening that our elderly are treated this way. Help The Aged had been consulted, but there is a 10wk wait for help to be initiated, perhaps that's just our area. BIL's gran died during that wait. Sam

Hi Sammy, Still ever hopeful for all of you, ,BIL's Grandad must be heartbroken and he is at a loss bless him,,perhaps a change of scenery for a few hours may help,,. Kay,,

Dear Sammy, I'm still with your thread. What else can we do when they won't accept help? Help the Aged are also coming to see my Mum, she met them in hospital, they suggested that she had a live in helper, she simply won't do that no matter what happens. Why do these elderly folk have so much cash around, my Mum is exactly the same but she doesn't know where it is now except that it is there somewhere. Love Amanda x

Sammy, Yes, I'm still here too ... I'm disappointed BIL hasn't heard from his Mother, however I'm APALLED by the treatment or lack of it that his Grandfather is receiving. He, sis, or you needs to 'raise the profile' of his case in order to get quicker attention. We had a similar situation with a 90+ year old Gt Aunt. If you pester (politely) and keep telling them that he's 'at risk' - try the local authority as well - you might get some action. Why are are old folk treated in this way? I feel passionately about this. They've given their service (one way or another) to the country and community within which they live - and what do we do, we brush them under the carpet. The Government doesn't do much either - token gestures prior to an election! Sorry to rant on your thread. I do hope that your family can see some hope and brighter days soon. Much love Jane x

Sammy. I have been reading your thread from the beginning and like everyone else I am upset and concerned for your relative. Granddad needs some help even though he may not realise or want it. Is he suffering from dementia and has the death of his wife just made the situation worse?. His doctor needs to be informed about his behaviour as he will get him the help quicker than most. He may need some respite in a residental home until he comes to terms with his wifes death. Right now he's in denial and obviously cant cope. Perhaps going to a home for 2 weeks or so and having others around him will help. As mentioned before there are some mean spirited caregivers who go into homecare to rip people off. At least in a residential home he wont be on a one to one situation and any money he may have will be locked away for safety. Hope the situation resolves itself soon. Will keep reading Margaret