Genealogy Chat

Is that at 32 nips to the bottle or are you metric? Merry

Looks like you will be a very merry Montgomery soon. Winter is coming so perhaps there will be NIPS in the air.

Hi Kenneth If Amy Jane and Emma Lawrence are one and the same, I'm not sure they are both parents to Thomas - On Scotlands People , I found the marriage of Hugh Sinclair and Amy Jane Barrie née Lawrence took place 25 July 1905 , Perth. Both widowers, Hugh a sheet metal worker, parents Hugh S and Christina Munro. It doesn't look like Hugh was in Scotland in 1901 - perhaps the family in Byker might be worth following up ? Also a cross search on Scotlands People for the death of Catherine Garavan /Sinclair didn't turn up any results - which might suggest she died outside Scotland , ( but its also possible she died in Scotland after 1954 or that her maiden name was forgotten by the death informant ) best of luck sally

Sally - stop pinching my malt!! (only joking!!) So there you are Kenneth - Emma/Amy Jane WAS a stepmother after all!! Unless the Byker family are the wrong ones and Hugh forgot to marry his ''girl''until years after they had produced their children!! I have looked for a death of Sarah Sinclair in England 1901-1905 without anything conclusive coming along. Sarah's age is a bit variable in 1891 and 1901 which doesn't help.....maybe she died in Scotland? Though I would have thought it more likely she died in England and Hugh then went ''home''...... There is this one, just after the 1901 census, but she has aged 10 years!! It is in the right place, but...... Name: Sinclair, Sarah Record Type: Deaths Age at death: 50 Quarter: June Year: 1901 District: Newcastle upon Tyne County: Northumberland Volume: 10b Page: 12 Merry (only 26 nips to go....)

Thanks to you both Sally and Merry. Looks like you got some good information there Sally because I know that Hughs parents were Hugh and Christina so you have found the elusive Lawrence, which means that Amy Lawrence was not my fathers mother as he was born in 1894 so seems like Catherine Garaven was his mother. Have something to go on now. Thanks a lot both of you Ken

What about Sarah?? Or do you think she and her family group in 1891 and 1901 are red-herrings? Don't forget, there was the death reg for a Catherine Sinclair in 1885 too...... With regard to the death reg I found in 1901 for a Sarah Sinclair - there are no Sarah Sinclairs on the 1901 census in Northumberland that fit with that age at death so it could be Hugh's wife as much as any other!! Hope you get to the bottom of this. If it were me, I would make enquiries about the death cert from 1885 for Catherine (posted in this thread earlier). If that young woman was the wife of Hugh, then the Sarah theory may come into play, but if that young woman had no connection with Hugh, then you may have to accept there is another reason that you cannot trace him in Scotland in 1901 nor trace a Scottish death for Catherine......... Try contacting Newcastle Registrars at: Newcastle upon Tyne Civic Centre, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE1 8PS. Tel: 0191 232 8520 or 9921. Ask if they could check the Q3 1885 death entry to see if that Catherine was single or married and, if married, the wife of whom?? Offer them the bottle of scotch! Good Luck Merry

Rang Newcastle. Very unhelpful. They said the best thing I could do was to write into them with all the details. Will try and call in next week when we are down that way. Thanks anyway. Ken

How annoying!! - They are hoping you won't bother!! Would make me even more determined. A very good idea to go in there if you can. I would also take a letter asking the same questions as you intend to pose to them. Then when they say they cannot deal with your request immediately, say that's OK because you have brought in a letter with the details as they already suggested you do that when you phoned on 25th Aug. Don't forget to ask who will be dealing with your query and let them see you are writing the name down!! Can you tell I used to work in this type of office??? lol Merry

One thing I was thinking about is, on the print out of Hugh's death it states that he was the widower of wife no.1 ------- wife no. 2 Amy Jane Lawrence. Do you think that he only had 2 wives and that the one at Byker (Sarah) is nothing to do with him. Just a thought! Ken (needing a holiday)

Could easily be the case. I was rather hoping that by eliminating the death of Catherine you might be able to focus back on Scotland as on the face of it, it would be more likely that your Hugh stayed in Scotland all the time. Only things against this are that he cannot be found in Scot. on the later census records, nor a birth for your father, nor a death for Catherine. Only other thought is that perhaps (if he was the one in Byker) he was never married to Sarah, so the relationship with her was not recorded. It's a mystery, but I do feel it is one that can be solved. Then you have the very best sort of family history research - the sort that is a challenge but that is resolved! Ancestors that reveal themselves easily, are never so interesting. Merry

It's my turn to be elusive now. Going on holiday tomorrow morning, and hopefully coming back through Newcastle to pursue the elusive Thomas. Thanks for your detective work. I can now see the light at the end of the tunnel,(Tyne for the use of ) Tell you all about it in just over a week. Bottle still up for grabs! This genealogy business is very exciting. Ken

Well here I am back again, none the wiser I am afraid. Went to Newcastle on Tyne. Went to Library there. Minimal help. Fisch machines were practicaly unreadable. Then tried Registrar found Catherine Sinclair's death alright but there was no maiden name on it so it was useless. Still they didn't charge me for that. I also asked for a search for birth of Thomas Sinclair, father Hugh Sinclair and Mother Catherine Garaven 1894/95 as I know Emma Lawrence wasn't his mother as Hugh didn't marry her till 1905. I am waiting a reply on this. After that I went to Perth registrar and asked for the same birth of Thomas but they couldn't find anything on that. Also couldn't find death of Catherine Garaven. So it is back to the drawing board for me again. Any help from anyone would be appreciated. Ken.

The point of looking at Catherine Sinclair's death cert was to find out her marital status and if a married person the name of the man she was the wife/widow of. You needed to know if under ''occupation'' it said ''wife of Hugh Sinclair'' or not!! English certificates do not give the maiden surnames of women until the 1960's!!! Merry

Kenneth Personally I would first order the birth certificate of Thomas Births Dec 1892 Sinclair Thomas Newcastle T. 10b 1[53]3 - the middle digit is very hard to read so it might be best to order it from the Newcastle Reg Office instead of the GRO. As this one fits in with the 1891 & 1901 census in Byker where Hugh is married to Sarah and the rest of the children are down as born in Scotland. This certificate will hopefully either rule him in or out but at least you'll know either way. It'll also give you Sarah's maiden name, as I can't remember if you know it already! Sorry, it's been a while since I kept up with this thread!! What you do next depends on the info thats on that birth certificate. If its him, it'll then be easier to find the marriage between Sarah & Hugh ,if its not him then you know that the family in Byker are just a red herring. Rachel

Have received Death Cert. of Catherine Sinclair. It confirms that Catherine was the wife of Hugh Sinclair. Tinsmith. She died age 28. 14 July. 1885. I now only need to find the marriage cert. of Sarah Stokoe, nee Ord, to Hugh Sinclair to confirm she was my Father's (Thomas Sinclair) Mother. Have tried Newcastle upon Tyne via the Internet but no success. Would it be worthwhile to send for the Sarah Sinclair's Death Cert ? Ken.l