Genealogy Chat

Hi Justine It looks as if Vauxhall was in Westminster St John, which was a subdistrict of Westminster St Margaret, which became in the 1860s St Georges Hanover Square. Might this be your man: Births Mar 1874 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brown Alfred St.Geo.H.Sq. 1a 557 Brown Alice St. Geo.H.Sq. 1a 402 BROWN Frederick George St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 376 Brown George James St.Geo.H.Sq. 1a 573 BROWN George William St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 461 BROWN Henry Pendrey St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 357 Brown John William St. Geo.H.Sq. 1a 451 Brown Laura Agnes St. Geo.H.Sq. 1a 449 >>Brown William Richard St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 372 I'm getting confused with all the Browns, but if there is a brushmaker in the family, visit this site: http://www.brushmakers.com/ It looks expensive to join, but they may have useful info.

Thank you abbess!! That sounds very possible!! I am not at all happy about Thomas' birth cert though...... I belong to the society of brushmakers society because of a number of them in hubby's tree. All seem to have had apprenticeships and all have done the job for years.......Your William, has never shown any evidence of being a brushmaker on any of the census returns, nor has he mentioned being called Joseph either!! What was the address on Thomas' birth cert? There are severa Joseph Brown's in Ldn/Surrey in 1881 who are brushmakers, though none have a 2 or 3 year old called Thomas....... Now, this St George's Hanover Square thing....... If there's a Wm Richard reg there, i wonder if there is a match for the other ''Vauxhall'' births?? Will look later, if no one else does! Merry

Of course there are matches!! - several of them!! Another thought - wasn't their a granddaughter in the house in 1901?? Another Elizabeth...... Justine - DO you know who she belongs to? The more people within this family that we can pick out as having two forenames (like William Richard, but maybe not like Samuel William!!) the better chance we have of getting the right family. At least if you eventually are able to confidently make a link back to Sherfield upon Lodden, then it's a small place! Easier than finding the right William Brown in Sheffield!!! :o)) Merry

Thank you for that Abess, I don't know how I missed that birth as I checked all the districts for him not just camberwell, southwark and battersea. I think I shall order that cert online this evening. Merry, I think your right about the brushmaker bit, I think it was just sheer coincidence that the first names came close to a match - let's face it, not difficult to spot a william or elizabeth brown as a couple on the census. I think I just kind of clung to the hope that it was them. I'm not one of these that just likes to go with the closest possible match and call it family. Do you think I should track down the birth cert for the granddaughter in 1901? I just assumed that it was their daughter Elizabeth's child - born out of wedlock. I shall wait to here from you as to which certs you think I should order. Many thanks to you for your continued input and to Abess for that birth info. Am going to go back to 1837 and see how I missed it! Justine (kicking ones own A***) x

Found this on free bmd - fully complete index for 75 and 76 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brown Elizabeth St.Geo.H.Sq 1a 420 June quarter 1876 Found this one on ancestry Name: Brown, Robert Thomas Record Type: Births Quarter: September Year: 1878 District: St George Hanover Square County: London Surrey Volume: 1a Page: 373

If it were me (!!!) I would probably take a deep breath (sigh??) and get the cert from St George's Hanover Sq for William Richard and do nothing else until that comes. When it arrives you are going to have parents names to work on (as long as they are Wm and Elizabeth!). Hopefully you will be able to find Elizabeth on the census before her marriage: hopefully her details will fit the known details of your Mrs Elizabeth Brown............. I wouldn't worry about other certs until you have done this. Merry

Thank you Merry. That's what I shall do then. One step at a time...William Richard Brown's Birth Cert shall be ordered this afternoon. Once again many thanks for all your time and effort with this, it is very much appreciated. Justine x

I shall be waiting for a result to be posted here!! Merry - Fingers crossed XXXX and thumbs X and toes XXXXX

Well, the birth certificate has arrived......not sure if it's right or not. William Richard Brown born tenth December 1873 address looks like 64 James?? Street can't make it out Help!!!! Under column where and when born looks like 611 S??????? Street and under signature, description and residence of informant it has written down 80 then it's been crossed through and above it 64 and under the crossed through 80 is written 14 - James??? Street Pimlico. Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh why could'nt this cert have been an EASY one. Anyway Father is down as WILLIAM HENRY BROWN Mother down as GRACE BROWN formerly GREGORY WILLIAMS OCCUPATION IS BLACKSMITH Birth registration district SAINT GEORGE HANOVER SQUARE Sub district of BELGRAVE What now Merry? Justine x

****PANTS**** From the 1881 census - his not my guy! View Record Albert H. Brown abt 1876 Pimlico, Middlesex, England Son 64 Sussex St, St George Hannover Square, London, England View Record Elizabeth J. Brown abt 1872 Pimlico, Middlesex, England Daughter 64 Sussex St, St George Hannover Square, London, England View Record Ellen Brown abt 1869 Pimlico, Middlesex, England Daughter 64 Sussex St, St George Hannover Square, London, England View Record Grace Brown abt 1843 Lawhilton, Cornwall, England Wife 64 Sussex St, St George Hannover Square, London, England View Record William H. Brown abt 1841 Stokeford, Devon, England Head 64 Sussex St, St George Hannover Square, London, England View Record William R. Brown abt 1874 Pimlico, Middlesex, England Son 64 Sussex St, St George Hannover Square, London, England

Unless William married Grace, then she died and he married Elizabeth, I don't know if that is the right William Richard. It is possible that happened though. Just seen new post - bummer :( Back to square 1

Hmmmmmm I wouldn't worry about the mother being Grace rather than Elizabeth, as our first sighting of Elizabeth is in 1881 I think, so Wm could have had more than one wife.... BUT - very duboius about his occupation.....GGGGrrrrrr - Blacksmith - TRAINED.....Your Wm.....labouring occupations, I seem to remember......Gggggrrrr Still thinking. UPDATE - Just seen your other post.......Gggrrrr! Merry

I found William Snr in 1851, not that that helps lol Thomas Brown abt 1795 Shedfield, Hampshire, England Head Battersea Surrey Charlotte Brown abt 1811 Bessing, Hampshire, England Wife Battersea Surrey Susan Brown abt 1834 Shedfield, Hampshire, England Daughter Battersea Surrey Sarah Brown abt 1836 Shedfield, Hampshire, England Daughter Battersea Surrey Mary Brown abt 1838 Shedfield, Hampshire, England Daughter Battersea Surrey Esther Brown abt 1840 Shedfield, Hampshire, England Daughter Battersea Surrey William Brown abt 1842 Shedfield, Hampshire, England Son Battersea Surrey Louisa Brown abt 1845 Shedfield, Hampshire, England Daughter Battersea Surrey Robert Brown abt 1850 Battersea, Surrey, England Son Battersea Surrey

Yep, that's him. And the funny thing is that on the 1861 William snr is a gardener and on the 1851 he is a BLACKSMITH....talk about rubbing salt in the wound!

Some maybes.... Births Dec 1872 BROWN William Wandsworth 1d 595 Births Sep 1872 Brown William Wandsworth 1d 323 Wandsworth covers Battersea. Births Sep 1874 BROWN Elizabeth Wandsworth 1d 563 Births Dec 1874 Brown Elizabeth Wandsworth 1d 637

Maybe Im going about this the wrong way....I think your theory Merry about the Sherfield Hants/Sheffield Yorkshire, has great promise. As if we assume they are two diffrent families then we can not match them in the other census's. The normal thing to do is assume that marriage took place between the first 2 years of a childs birth, not always the case I know, miscarriage, high death rates for infants. So If I assume that William Richard was the first child born 1873 - they should of wed approx 1870. Gonna buy a heap of credits for 1837 and check the marriages for William Browns and see if I can find an Elizabeth to match....Pants, how am I gonna do that without a maiden name for her. Arghhhhhh. Maybe look at free bmd first........Then sit in a heap, cry, eat a 200g bar of cadburys dairy milk and pat myself on the back for finding some rellies on the 51. Justine x

There is a William Brown marrying (maybe) an Elizabeth Wilkins on FreeBMD - June 1873. The marriage would have been after the 1871 census - William is single there.

Thanks for those Tracy, I shall make a note of them. I wish that everyone had been made to fill out the census, providing a birth certificate. Life would be so much easier.......I am gonna crack it...not gonna give up. Might sulk, but not gonna give up. Justine x

WHAT ABOUT THIS - A REAL POSSIBLILITY??? We know that in 1871 dad William brown born Sherfield Hants, was living in Battersea with his parents. We know that he had a son by abt 1873 We know that in later census records one of the places his wife Elizabeth gives for her place of birth was Westminster and that she was born about 1844. So.......I decided (lol) that if William was living in Battersea, then he was likely to marry in that area, which is Wandsworth district. He's single in 1871 but with a child in 1873, so a marriage inbetwen would be good. Searched on FreeBMD. Only one where there is a possible bride called Elizabeth......... Marriages Jun 1872 >>>>Brown William Wandsworth 1d 859 Musgrove George Wandsworth 1d 859 >>>>SHEPPARD Elizabeth Wandsworth 1d 859 STEVENS Julia Wandsworth 1d 859 Back to 1871 census to see what Elizabeth Sheppard's are around, living in or near Battersea and born about 1844ish..... Clara Sheppard abt 1851 Woking, Surrey, England Daughter Battersea London Eliza Sheppard abt 1869 Marylebone, Middlesex, England Daughter Battersea London Elizabeth Sheppard abt 1813 Buckland, Surrey, England Wife Battersea London >>>>Elizabeth Sheppard abt 1844 Westr, Middlesex, England Daughter Battersea London Emma Sheppard abt 1847 Westrill, Surrey, England Daughter Battersea London William Sheppard abt 1805 Feuren, Colchester Head Battersea London I should think the 2-year-old is a granddaughter of the head, given the age of his wife and the fact they have an Elizabeth already. What do you think?? Merry

Well, that looks like a good possible 'suspect'....but if we assume she is a granddaughter - illegitimate child of Elizabeths, why is she not with them on the 1881 census. There is a daughter Elizabeth but she was born (according to the census in 1875-76) Maybe Elizabeth had a brother or sister and this is the child, grandchild.