Genealogy Chat

Ok, the story so far.... just in case it is of help to anyone else. I contacted the social work dept. who in turn passed me on to the Scottish Adoption Association in Edinburgh. The girl was very nice on the phone and took down what little detail I did have. I obviously voiced my concerned about whether I would be able to trace since the adoptee is deceased. Her answer was: If they were able to trace my birth grandmother, they would contact her to ask if she would be interested first and then get back in touch with me. Although this makes since, it is a bit of a blow as I'm not even that sure I want to meet her, just find out a bit more about her first. Anyway, I was warned that trying to trace adoption files take a long time. They hold the records of adoptions carried out by themselves, the Church of Scotland and the Episcopal Church. http://www.scottishadoption.org Obviously they have to do a bit of digging and of course there's always the possibilty that Dad's Mum was Catholic or the adoption was done outwith Edinburgh. I have decided that I might have a little word with my adopted grandfather, if I can find an appropriate time. Will keep you posted!

Margaret I must admit I am slightly surprised at the response you got from the Social Services! Adoptions which took place before 1975 were 'full and final' - that is, a complete and ETERNAL severance of the child from its birth mother and other birth relatives. Mothers were promised absolute and unending secrecy and with this in mind, it is quite possible that many Birth Mothers never told a subsequent husband that they had previously had a child. I presume the Social Worker will approach your Birth GM with tact and diplomacy - but I am still very surprised that she is going to do it at all, particularly as you have not expressed a wish to meet her yet. But perhaps the law is different in Scotland? As to the UNADOPTION question, no, I dont understand this either - surely it must be 'merely' a re-adoption? I remember being horrified to the bottom of my soul when an acquaintance, who had adopted a little girl, casually remarked that they had handed her back, as they had decided they would rather have a boy!!!! And they got one, too. This was in the 1970s and I really have to wonder about the Social Workers who allowed this to happen. Good luck and may you all find what you are looking for. Olde Crone

Old Crone: I asume from your response that you are of the opinion that adoptees shouldn't be able to trace their birth mothers? Well it's the same situation but one generation removed, after all my father can't exactly trace her himself, can he? You state that adoption pre 1975 were supposed to mean complete severance of mother and child..... then surely no-one would be able to trace anyone?! If you re-read my message, you will notice that it wasn't a social worker, but an external association who specialise in prior adoptions. One would assume that as the are professionals in this field, they would be tactful if they aproach her. It is of course very possible that they won't even be able to trace her!

Helen You say that 'surely no-one would be able to trace anyone' I am merely stating what the Law promised pre 1975 - full and final severance and CERTAINLY not the slightest possibility of anyone being able to trace anyone.It was never never intended that they should, that was the whole point of legal Adoption - leave behind the stigma of illegitimacy for the child and a clean slate for the mother. Things have changed now in Society and I certainly dont have a problem in principle with adoptees trying to trace their roots. But, if you have ever looked at some of the postings on these Boards it is evident that some people (usually young, I find) want to barge into someone else's life without any thought to the consequences, either to themselves or to the Birth Mother/Birth family. My friend was contacted by the daughter she gave up for adoption some 40 years ago. Her daughter had found her privately, without going through the normal channels. My friend was absolutely thrilled to bits, the whole Adoption had been a terrible trauma. Everything went well for a year or so, and then suddenly, the Adoptive parents demanded that the girl choose - them or Birth Mother. Naturally, the girl chose her adoptive parents and my friend is still in bits two years later. I am not saying the girl shouldnt have done it, I am saying that she simply had not thought things through and hurt a lot of people in the process. Another acquaintance has an adopted daughter who also barged uninvited into her birth mother's life, literally turning up on her doorstep. She has also been devastated to find she was the product of incestuous rape. If you havent done so already, please read Jess's excellent Adoption thread (but you'll need a flask and some sandwiches, its very long!) Fools rush in where Angels fear to tread, should be the watchword of those who search for their roots. OC

'I have no other children & it is so hard to be a Granny & not to see or hear how they are all doing. maybe one day!'......... This was posted on the afore mentioned 'jess thread' and pretty much sums up one of the reasons I wish to find my paternal grandmother. Old Crone, You seem to have a very embittered, negative and bleak attitude towards my search. I did wonder if you have any direct experience on the subject apart from the unfortunate incidents you previously mentioned? Your post is full of contradictions..... you talk about how 'young people want to barge in unwanted into their birth mothers lives' and yet you are refering to pre1975 adoptions. The incident you mention, you say the lady was adopted 40 YEARS previously. How do you define young? I feel that there is little point in trying to reply to your posts as you clearly have no understanding of the viewpoint I take. This whole thing started when I began my family tree, after having my own children, and a huge part was missing. I just want to be able to have some answers if and when they time comes for the girls to take an interest and ask questions. I hardly see this as 'barging in unwanted'. I don't know if you have ever given birth to a child, but I can assure you it must be the most difficult thing to give that little life away. If circumstances dictated that it was neccessary, I know that I personally would think about nothing else for the rest of my life. I think she has the right (if she wishes, after all it's completely in her hands, if she's ever found) to know about the son she had and the fact that she has 3 granddaughters and 2 great granddaughters. Enough said, I can see that we shall have to agree to disagree!

Oh and at the rest of seeming pedantic, my name is Helen not Margaret. :)

Hi Helen Can't sleep tonight so having a browse back, and remembered your thread. I'm pleased to see that you've made a start and that you are handling the situation sensitively, ie going through the recognised and advised channels. I did wonder how things were going but hadn't got round to checking your thread. Keep positive and, like I said before, just prepared for anything. Love Mandy :) x

helen yr response is heartfelt. good luck with your search. my thought and prayers are with you.

Helen - I have followed your thread for a while. May I ask that you consider things from the viewpoint of the paternal grandmother (ie the position I am in, as someone in their mid fifties). I too placed a child for adoption (1967). The reasons for this were due to the circumstances which related to the conception of the child. Those circumstances are something which I can NEVER erase from my mind. The full details of the circumstances were put in the details which will now be on the child's adoption file papers, therefore the child will know about them should they ever seek more details about me (the birth mother). They may not like what they read, but they will know the unpalatable truth. However, when they were placed for adoption, I was told that was it and they would never be able to contact me. OK the law altered in 1975 & it meant they would get access to the adoption file. Ever since then I have had it in the back of my mind that they would pop up from nowhere and bring all my fears & nightmares about things & the problmes to the front again. There is absolutely no way that I would ever feel able to meet the child - or their grandchildren. I firmly slammed the lid of pandora's box shut when I placed the child for adoption and that is how it will stay. I could chose to have the right to know about grandchildren, but I would be absolutely furious if they (or anyone else on their behalf) attempted to force or persuade me to do this. There are some things which really should be left well alone.

Helen I am NOT against adoptees trying to trace their roots - my posting started as genuine AMAZEMENT that the Law does not appear to be what I thought it was. That was the point I was making. You seem to have taken all my remarks as being a personal attack on you, I can assure you they were not meant to be, they were not meant to be an attack on anyone! Embittered? No, not at all, but I am a lot older than you and have seen many things and know that what starts with the best of intentions can often end in disaster. I was merely expressing my opinions - you do not have to agree with them, but as you invited people's opinions by posting this thread, I wonder why you are so hostile to those who do not agree with you on every point. Whatever, I do truly wish you a happy and successful reunion, if that is what you want, or at least whatever knowledge you can glean from the Adoptive File. Olde Crone

Hi Helen I understand where you're coming from in wanting to trace your father's birth mother - even if it's just to find a name. My Mum was adopted in 1948 - it's something we've always known I don't even remember when she told us. I never really asked her about it thinking she'd tell me about it when she was ready to do so but I've always been curious in a 'where did I come from' way. A few months ago when I started looking at my family tree she told me all she had found out. She'd managed to get her birth certificate about 20 years ago so knew her birth mother's name and her birth name - there was no father listed. She also searched some birth, marriage records etc to try to find out more. Then she did nothing up till a few months ago as work, life, and us kids got in the way! So we took it from there - did more searching and ended up finding a cousin registered on this site! We got in contact and after a few emails back and forth we know that she is alive and that my Mum has a half-sister. We have her address but we don't really know what to do now. Personally I feel that it would be nice for her to know that Mum is happy and well and about her family etc. Of course I don't know the circumstances - all I know is she had a baby 4 years before Mum who she didn't have adopted. The cousin has advised us to write to her half-sister (although she may not know about Mum) rather than to her birth mother as she would be about 78 now. We don't know if this is the 'right' thing to do in case she doesn't know. But we want to get in contact and don't know how else to go about it. Good luck with your search Helen.