Genealogy Chat

And even if that's her , there's still no matching death in 1975 in Richmond.

This looks like the death of the Elizabeth on the 1939 register.

First name(s) ELIZABETH
Last name ARNOLD
Gender Female
Birth day 6
Birth month 4
Birth year 1914
Age -
Death quarter 4
Death year 1988
District Colchester
Register number 1088
County Essex
Volume 9
Page 2118
Country England
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Civil Deaths & Burials
Collections from Great Britain, England

Just to prove that is the correct Elizabeth on the 1939 register

Marriages Jun 1953 (>99%)
ARNOLD Thomas E TODD Leeds 2c 679
ARNOLD Thomas E PEARCE Leeds 2c 679
TODD Elizabeth ARNOLD Leeds 2c 679
PEARCE Elizabeth. ARNOLD. Leeds. 2c. 679



So it would appear that Charles either died before 1953 or they divorced before 1953. A copy of Elizabeth's marriage to Thomas should show if she was widowed or divorced.

The niece therefore not only has the wrong date of death for Elizabeth on her tree, but also the wrong DOB.

The tree says she was born 11/11 /1909 in Stainton, Yorkshire.

It looks as if the niece has seen Ancestry's suggestions and accepted them as fact.

Looking at Elizabeth and Charles H's marriage record, on Ancestry, Ancestry suggests she was an Elizabeth Helen Todd on 1911 census, born Stainton.
The same Elizabeth was also with her parents George and Mary in 1939, DOB 11/11/1909, living in Stokesley, Yorkshire - unmarried.

Ancestry also suggests (wrongly) the probate record for Helen Elizabeth Pearce (who was a third different person) which the niece has put on her tree as proof of death.

There are actually three trees on Ancestry .

One says Charles died 1968 in Salisbury - no proof, and I don't see such a death record. That tree also says his wife's name was Maureen - no surname, 1907-80. No proof.

One doesn't name his wife, but also says Charles died 1968 Salisbury - no proof given.

The third one I'm assuming is the niece's, as it names Elizabeth (1909 - 75) as his wife. It says she died in Colchester in 1975 (though there's a question mark added) but gives the probate record for the totally different Helen Elizabeth Pearce who was born in 1887.
Ah, the supposed death of Charles has changed since the last time I looked at it. Originally it was for a Henry Pearce who died in Basingstoke in 1968.
Now it's this one which is claimed to be his death:

Charles H Pearce
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Charles H Pearce
Death Age: 59
Birth Date: abt 1909
Registration Date: Dec 1968
Registration district: Hendon
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 5c
Page: 222


EDIT:

The Basingstoke death is also an Ancestry suggestion which pops up when you look at Charles and his parents and siblings in 1911 - so it's been taken as fact.

Has anyone actually found the alleged marriage?

I can't see one on frebmd

From an age point of view, these would fit (assuming 14/11/1907 is correct for his birth, as Bob has stated):

Deaths Jun 1963 (>99%)
PEARCE CHARLES H 55 BIRMINGHAM 9C 189

Deaths Jun 1959 (>99%)
PEARCE Charles 51 Wednesbury 9b 688

The Birmingham one looks more likely, especially if he still had family living in Birmingham.

But of course these are only suggestions.

Elizabeth Todd born 11/11/1909 in 1939 ......................... unmarried (As per post above)


Name: Elizabeth H Todd
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Single
Birth Date: 11 Nov 1909
Residence Year: 1939
Address: The Lodge Nunthorpe Hall Nunthorpe
Residence Place: Stokesley, Yorkshire (North Riding), England
Occupation: Unpaid Domestic Duties
Schedule Number: 81
Sub Schedule Number: 3
Enumeration District: JHUE
Registration district: 534-3
Inferred Father: George F Todd
Inferred Mother: Mary A Todd
Household Members:
Name
George F Todd
Mary A Todd
Elizabeth H Todd
Alan T Todd
Gordon G Todd

OK - found the marriage NO second name for the bride, so where does the 'info' come from about Miss Todd?

On the 1947 ER in Skipton, Charles H Pearce was living in the same house as a woman named NELLIE Pearce, and in 1945, he was on his own.

What makes you think this is the man who was born in Warwickshire?

Children of the marriage?

Births Dec 1934 (>99%)
Pearce Maureen Todd Richmond Y. 9d 936
Births Sep 1937 (>99%)
Pearce Edwin Todd Richmond Y. 9d 991

Has anyone tried to trace - and maybe contact - either of them?

The couple on 1947 ER

Marriages Sep 1945 (>99%)
PARK Nellie Pearce Sedbergh 9a 5
Pearce Charles H Park Sedbergh 9a 5

Marriages Dec 1933 (>99%)
Pearce Charles H Todd Richmond Y. 9d 1537
Todd Elizabeth Pearce Richmond Y. 9d 1537


If you are certain that your Charles married Elizabeth Todd in Richmond, then you need Elizabeth's second marriage certificate to ascertain whether she was widowed or divorced!

Births Mar 1917 (>99%)
Park Nellie Stainton Sedbergh 9a 1

1939

Park Household (5 People)
27 Fairholme , Sedbergh R.D., Yorkshire (West Riding), England


Nellie Pearce (Park) 11 Dec 1916 Female Domestic Duties Single 31 3
John Park 12 Aug 1891 Male Motor Driver (Provisioner) Married 31 1
Ellen Park 17 Aug 1888 Female Domestic Duties Married 31 2
John William Park 17 Apr 1922 Male Shop Assistant (Butcher) Single 31 4
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.

Name: Nellie Pearce
Death Age: 77
Birth Date: 11 Dec 1916
Registration Date: May 1994
Registration district: Leeds
Inferred County: West Yorkshire
Register Number: E9C
District and Subdistrict: 0921E

First name(s) CHARLES HENRY
Last name PEARCE
Gender Male
Birth day 20
Birth month 5
Birth year 1914
Age -
Death quarter 2
Death year 1995
District Leeds
District number 0921I
Register number I4C
Entry number 255
Date of registration mm/yy 0495
County Yorkshire
Country England

So, this would appear to mean that the man in Skipton is someone else

Which of Charles's siblings is the parent of the 'niece' to whom you refer?

Bob, if you're still looking at this, I think the niece should scrap everything on her tree (at least as far as Charles is concerned) except what she has actual records for, and start again.

All Elizabeth's info is wrong.

Is she absolutely sure she has the right Charles Henry?
If she's sure he was the son of Alfred and Catherine (nee Fay), does she have a copy of the 1933 marriage cert, to see the father's name, to be sure that he's the same Charles who married Elizabeth Todd?

Where does the info re Skipton in 1947 come from?

EDIT:

I see there was a Charles Henry Pearce in Skipton in the 1940's:

Charles Henry Pearce
in the West Yorkshire, England, Electoral Registers, 1840-1962
Name: Charles Henry Pearce
Year: 1945
Country: England
County: West Yorkshire
Parliamentary Division: Skipton
Place of Abode: Pedgecroft
Reference Number: KEI:15/2; SKIP:19/4; SKIP:19/5


BUT there's nobody else eligible to vote living with him in 1945.

In 1947, if this is the same Charles , he's with wife Nellie at 27 Fairholme.

Charles H Pearce
in the West Yorkshire, England, Electoral Registers, 1840-1962
Name: Charles H Pearce
Year: 1947
Country: England
County: West Yorkshire
Parliamentary Division: Skipton
Reference Number: KEI:15/4; SKIP:20/2.

EDIT again:

Sorry, Erika - didn't notice you'd already posted that.

No problem AG - confirmation is always useful

The niece has obviously fallen into the Ancestry ‘trap’ and hasn’t verified anything

This is the Charles who was Alfred and Catherine's son, in 1911.

As Erika has already asked - which of Charles's siblings was the niece's parent?


Charles Pearce
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Charles Pearce
Age in 1911: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1908
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Aston Birmingham
Civil Parish: New Sarum
County/Island: Wiltshire
Country: England
Street address: 7 Hill View Terrace and Road, Salisbury
Registration district: Salisbury
Registration District Number: 253
Sub-registration district: Salisbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Household schedule number: 280
Piece: 12106
Household Members:
Name Age
Alfred Pearce 37
Catherine Pearce 31
Beatrice Pearce 11
Lily Pearce 10
Violet Pearce 8
Dorothy Pearce 6
Arthur Pearce 4
Charles Pearce 3

All the children (apart from Charles) were born in Salisbury.

The niece's tree (the one listing Elizabeth Helen Todd as Charles's wife) , only shows siblings born after 1911.

She can't have discovered the GRO site with mms.

Births Sep 1912 (>99%)
Pearce Alfred J Fay Salisbury 5a 302

Births Jun 1914 (>99%)
PEARCE Edwin E Fay Salisbury 5a 311

Births Sep 1916 (>99%)
Pearce Olive C Fay Salisbury 5a 278

Births Mar 1918 (>99%)
Pearce Sylvia G Fay Salisbury 5a 226

Births Jun 1920 (>99%)
Pearce William V Fay Salisbury 5a 327


A bit of detective work shows that the niece is the daughter of Edwin Ernest.

So Charles Henry is indeed the son of Alfred and Catherine.

If it was my tree, I'd buy a copy of Elizabeth Todd/Pearce/Arnold's 1953 marriage cert to see what info is on it.

And my brain's fried, so I'm stopping for tonight.