Genealogy Chat

Her 'marriage' to Nelson is of questionable legality, in view of the fact that she used her maiden name.

People lied in those days just as much as they do now. And they were just as immoral - but usually a bit more discreet

ErikaH absolutely! That's what makes this the more fascinating to me :-)

If I can pinpoint Daniel Smith it may answer a lot of questions in respects to my family research. Daniel can't just dissappear, there must be a record for him post 1915+

Ancestry is linking the 1911 census with this death

Daniel Smith
Death Age: 49
Birth Date: abt 1889
Registration Date: Dec 1938
Registration district: Bedwellty
Inferred County: Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 81

Would it be worth purchasing a copy?

That looks a very likely candidate in deed.

The marriage cert would tell you his declared age, and his father's name (if known) which might help you to pinpoint him

Yes ErikaH we have this on page one of this thread Daniel Smith born 1889..I suspect +++DetEcTive+++ has the correct Daniel in question.

So, are you saying you have a copy of the cert of the Smith/Fleming marriage?

The Smith/Fleming is on this link

https://imgur.com/a/ZC2M5un

Daniel Smith's declared age on 1 Jun 1914 is 25.
He was an Iron Moulder Journeyman.
His father John Henry Smith was a Casting Maker at an Iron Foundry.
Witnesses Patrick Lynch & Rosa Smith
The marriage took place in the RC church of St Michael, Clarence St, Illgmenlly?, Newport.
The cert was signed by the Parish Priest & the attending Registrar.

Just for the record:

SMITH, DANIEL mms DESMOND
GRO Reference: 1889 J Quarter in NEWPORT MON Volume 11A Page 225

SMITH, GERTRUDE mms DESMOND
GRO Reference: 1896 D Quarter in NEWPORT MON Volume 11A Page 254

SMITH, ROSA JANE mms DESMOND
GRO Reference: 1891 D Quarter in NEWPORT MON Volume 11A Page


Parents' marriage:

Marriages Dec 1887 (>99%)
DESMOND Julia Newport, M. 11a 330
Smith John Hook Newport,M. 11a 330

John 'Hook' Smith and John Henry Smith?

Maybe he didn't like having Hook as a name?! Or maybe Henry was a mistake by the registrar.

??

SMITH, JOHN HOOK mms FERRIS
GRO Reference: 1865 J Quarter in MALMSBURY Volume 05A Page 44


Jno Hook Smith
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Jno Hook Smith
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Relation: Son
Father's name: John Smith
Mother's name: Elizth Ann Smith
Gender: Male
Where born: Corston, Wiltshire, England
Civil Parish: St Paul
Ecclesiastical parish: Bristol and Gloucester
Town: Malmesbury
County/Island: Wiltshire
Country: England
Registration district: Malmesbury
Sub-registration district: Malmesbury Western
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Household schedule number: 22
Piece: 1891
Folio: 7
Page Number: 5
Household Members:
Name Age
John Smith 51
Elizth Ann Smith 47
Martha Jane Smith 16
Alfred Smith 14
Ann Salina Smith 12
Chas Jno Smith 8
Jno Hook Smith 5
Rosa Smith 7 Months
Emily Salome Smith 10


John Smith
in the 1881 England Census
Name: John Smith
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865
Relationship to Head: Son
Father: John Smith
Mother: Elizabeth Smith
Gender: Male
Where born: Corston, Wiltshire, England
Civil Parish: Malmesbury St Paul
County/Island: Wiltshire
Country: England
Street address: Chippenham Road
Occupation: Labourer
Registration district: Malmesbury
Sub registration district: Malmesbury Western
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors:
Piece: 2027
Folio: 5
Page Number: 5
Household Members:
Name Age
John Smith 58
Elizabeth Smith 56
Emily Smith 20
John Smith 16
Mark Smith 28
Margaret Smith 26
Emily Smith 5
Catharine Smith 3
Elizabeth Smith 1


John Smith
in the 1891 Wales Census
Name: John Smith
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Julia Smith
Gender: Male
Where born: England
Civil Parish: Llantarnam
Ecclesiastical parish: Llantarnam
Town: Cwmbran
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales
Street address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image
Registration district: Newport
Sub registration district: St Woollos
ED, institution, or vessel: 20
Neighbors:
Piece: 4380
Folio: 157
Page Number: 30
Household Members:
Name Age
John Smith 25
Julia Smith 23
Daniel Smith 2


1901 and 1911,posted on previous page, both give his birthplace as Wiltshire.


John H Smith
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: John H Smith
Death Age: 85
Birth Date: abt 1867
Registration Date: Jun 1952
Registration district: Pontypool
Inferred County: Monmouthshire
Volume: 8c
Page: 231


His father was also named John Hook Smith:


Ann Sabina Smith
in the Wiltshire, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1916
Name: Ann Sabina Smith
Gender: Female
Age: 25
Birth Date: abt 1859
Marriage or Bann Date: 17 May 1884
Marriage or Bann Place: Corston, All Saints with Rodbourne, Holy Rood, Wiltshire, England
Father: John Hook Smith
Spouse: Frederick George Tanner

On the other hand -

there's this marriage :

Daniel Smith
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1837-1915
Name: Daniel Smith
Spouse Surname: Tucker
Registration Year: 1912
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: Bedwellty
Inferred County: Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 133
Records on Page:
Name
Daniel Smith
Sarah A Tucker

Is this a previous marriage (in spite of the fact that he says he's a bachelor in 1914) , or a different Daniel?


Children of that marriage:

Births Sep 1912 (>99%)
Smith Victor Tucker Bedwellty 11a 155

SMITH, IRIS MAY mms TUCKER
GRO Reference: 1914 S Quarter in BEDWELLTY Volume 11A Page 235

The second child was born after the date of Daniel's marriage to Mary Fleming - so either there were two Daniel Smiths in Bedwellty, or he and Sarah had divorced.

I'd surmise a different Daniel, Smith appears a very common name. The Daniel Smith who died in 1938 seems like a strong candidate for being Mary Frances Fleming's first husband.

Perhaps the 1914 marriage was bigamous, and Daniel changed his name and disappeared when he was found out ??

ArgyllGran I suspect like you I'll be waiting on the 1921 census to give clues to some of my family :-)

Death of the child Victor ??

SMITH, VICTOR 0
GRO Reference: 1913 S Quarter in BEDWELLTY Volume 11A Page 119

Notes copied over to my tree under Daniel Smith. The census records certainly appear valid and the death record certainly possible.

If I see Daniel Smith kicking about in the 1921 census that'll answer a few questions.

in the 1939 census it has Mary A Arbuckle and Samuel R Arbuckle, but for the life of me I car'nt find a marriage or birth for him