Genealogy Chat

So according to my great grandmother's marriage record she married this chap called Daniel Smith in 1914 in Wales and then had a child called Mary in 1915. After that he appears to disappear from history. Was he a victim of the the Great War I wonder?

Attached are the two records I have for him see-

Marriage
https://imgur.com/a/ZC2M5un
Birth of their child
https://imgur.com/a/7UL1ZJk

I see great grandmother Mary Frances Fleming remarried in the 1920's so my initial guess is to assume that Daniel Smith was likely a victim of the Great War. Granted this is just an educated guess. Be very interested to hear if any one can confirm this.

Remarriage to Richard Henry Nelson-
https://imgur.com/a/JFyzA4E

records from Freebmd ..... easier for helpers than having to constantly click on urls

Marriages Dec 1928 (>99%)
FLEMING Mary F NELSON Stockton 10a 160
Nelson Richard H Fleming Stockton 10a 160


Do you have this certificate?

If so, what does it say for your gr grandmother .... widow or divorced??

from Freebmd

Marriages Jun 1914 (>99%)

FLEMING Mary F Smith Newport M 11a 617
Smith Daniel Fleming Newport M 11a 617


Births Jun 1915 (>99%)
Smith Mary A Fleming Newport M 11a 549

Curiously my great grandmother's marriage record to Richard Henry Nelson lists her as a spinster....although technically if her first husband was deceased it should list her as widow. I find that rather curious. The links are listed above.

The premise is 1. Her first husband either deceased due to service during the Great War 2. She left her first husband for her new partner Richard Henry Nelson or 3. Some other unknown variable that I am not aware of....

History is often this way to us the descendants.........we peer into the dim darkness of history often with nothing much more than the dim flicker of candlelight :-)

The 1928 marriage image states Mary Frances Fleming >Spinster< aged 34. Father James Fleming.

Both witnesses were from the Nelson side of the family.

Although Spinster had been used for older, unmarried, women who had possibly been widowed, they would have been recorded in their first married name.

Divorce at that time was very rare, especially amongst the working and middle classes. Remarriage of widows after the Great War was quite common.

The only thing that comes to mind is that the first 1914 marriage took place in an RC church. If she wasn't able to produce the certificate, the Registrar for the later one may not have recognised it as 'legal' without confirmation that a Registrar had been present.
The alternative is that Daniel Smith was still living and that his wife entered into a bigamous marriage!

I'm inclined to believe that Daniel Smith was deceased at the time of her marriage to Richard Henry Nelson....as to WHEN Daniel Smith died prior to my great grandmother's 2nd marriage I am quite frankly in the dark. My belief is that her first husband was probably casualty of the Great War......a brief look at Daniel Smith casualties for WW1 reveals 96 hits. One particular record is actually listed as Royal Welsh Fusilier 23207 Private Daniel Smith died 1915.....can't help but wonder if that's him???

that Daniel Smith 23207 was married to a Jane and father was joseph and he was 38yrs old

Was Mary Angela baptised? How is her father recorded?
What about old school records? Who is noted as her parents on the school entrance register?

Did Mary Angela marry? ... If so, who is recorded as her father, ..was he noted as deceased?

I know that not being noted as deceased is not always a clear picture though. My great grandfather had been dead for over 20 years, but is not recorded as deceased, when his daughter married.

When did Mary Frances move from Newport area? Was she starting a new life as a spinster? Was her daughter with her?

I find the spinster status leaves me with questions about her actual position.

Have you tried tracing Daniel's family for clues?

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
35, Woodside Road, Llanvihangel Llantarnam, Newport, Monmouthshire, Wales

John K (H) Smith Head Married Male 34 1867 Wiltshire, Labourer In Iron Works
Julia Smith Wife Married Female 32 1869 Monmouthshire, Labourer In Iron Works
Daniel Smith Son - Male 12 1889 Monmouthshire, Wales -
Rosa J Smith Daughter - Female 9 1892 Monmouthshire, Wales -
Gertrude Smith Daughter - Female 4 1897 Monmouthshire, Wales -
John H Smith Son - Male 2 1899 Monmouthshire, Wales
------------------------

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Colerick Terrace Cwmbran Mon, Llanvihangel Llantarnam, Monmouthshire, Wales
(Image states address as 226 Coronation Road)

John Smith Head Married Male 46 1865 Wiltshire Ironworker
Julia Smith Wife Married Female 42 1869 Cwmavon Mon -
Daniel Smith Son Single Male 22 1889 Cwmbran Ironworker
Rosa Smith Daughter Single Female 19 1892 Cwmbran -
Gertrude Smith Daughter Single Female 14 1897 Cwmbran -
John Smith Son Single Male 12 1899 Cwmbran School
May Smith Daughter Single Female 9 1902 Cwmbran School
Albert Smith Son Single Male 6 1905 Cwmbran School
Arthur Smith Son Single Male 4 1907 Cwmbran School
----------------------------------

Think I've looked at this family before at some time

As she went through a second marriage ceremony using her maiden name, I would say she was NOT a widow, as she would otherwise have married as Smith.

Thanks guys very helpful. On the 1914 marriage license I think I got 226 Coronation Road, Cwwbran so certainly they were both of the area.

1915 birth of daughter Mary shows they were both living at 36 Alexandra Road Newport. His profession listed as Dock worker. Perhaps he joined the Navy?

I known Mary Frances Fleming was certainly no longer in the area by the early to mid 20's. She taken up with Richard Henry Nelson of Stockton but curiously they had children prior to marrying. That struck me as unusual for the time period.in fact they didn't marry until 1928. Why was that?

Children out of wedlock is not at all unusual now, and never has been!

Divorce was expensive and rare plus she may have clung to that aspect of her RC faith. Many couples declare themselves to be married to each other when, in fact, the researcher knows jolly well that the legal spouse is living in the next village.

If she's had no contact with Daniel for a considerable number of years, she's more likely to declare herself a widow, erroneously believing that she could declare him dead without the formalities. This makes the Spinster status all the more puzzling.

Newport to Stockton is a heck of a long way. There probably wasn't much of a chance that anyone would know she'd been previously married especially if she arrived as part of Richard Nelson's family.

What happened to her daughter to Daniel Smith? Did she move with her, or was she left with other relatives?

Her daughter Mary came with her to Stockton. Mary Frances Fleming and Richard Henry Nelson appear to have children together certainly from about 1920. On Richard Henry Nelson's death certificate from the 1960s I see Mary Arbuckle (Smith) listed as informant step daughter.

Would this be them on the 1939 register?

Nelson Household (7 People)
36 Wellington Street , Stockton R.D., Durham, England

FIRST NAME(S) LAST NAME(S) DOB SEX OCCUPATION MARITAL STATUS SCHEDULE SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER
Mary F Nelson 17 Aug 1893 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 216 2
Richard H Nelson 13 Oct 1895 Male Boiler Maker Married 216 1
Richard H Nelson 10 Jul 1920 Male General Labourer Single 216 3
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Lawrence Nelson 07 Nov 1934 Male At School Single 216 7

It would be interesting to see how Richard 1920 birth was registered.
As its been transcribed as Richard E on freebmd, with no alternative surnames, one would probably assume that she presented herself as Mrs Nelson.

Births Sep 1920 (>99%)
Nelson Richard E Fleming Stockton 10a 160

Can only surmise that Mary Frances Fleming assumed the name Nelson up until 1928 whereupon she used the name legally upon her marriage to Richard Henry Nelson. It begs the question theirfore was she not free to marry until 1928?