Genealogy Chat

Thanks Ann
I've got most of the UK info but I'm struggling to find out exactly when John Scholer arrived and where from. He was naturalised British in 1891 so I guess I need to track down that record as it should have a bit of information. Then it's on to Charlotte/Agnes whose roots I think are in Dublin...

PARISH OF ST LEONARD CHRIST CHURCH | The National Archives

discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/rd/cc76a985-fe...





PARISH OF ST LEONARD CHRIST CHURCH ... St Leonards on Sea House Improvement Society Ltd; ... Church of England, St Leonards Christ Church Parish, ...

Is this relevant, or a different person?

Reference: HO 334/26/9772
Description:

Naturalisation Certificate: Johann Michael Scholer. From Germany. Resident in London. Certificate A9772 issued 27 July 1897.
Date: 1897
Held by: The National Archives, Kew
Legal status: Public Record
Language: English
Closure status: Open Document, Open Description

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C11727679

Ann as part of the address line is missing I can't tell what I'm looking for and when I go to the St Leonards Housing it all seems too recent.

DET - Not sure, my information is that he was naturalised in 1891 and this is 6 years later. Would it take that long for it to be on a certificate?

this looks like a fuller version of the Naturalisation of Johann Michael Scholer posted by DET

this is from ancestry ..........

UK, Naturalisation Certificates and Declarations, 1870-1912

Name: Johann Michael Scholer
Gender: Male
Age: 42
Birth Date: abt 1855
Birth Place: Mengen, Baden
Record Type: Certificate of Naturalisation
Relationship: Self
Event Date: 27 Jul 1897
Event Country Region: United Kindom
Residence Year: 1897
Residence Place: Bloomsbury, London
Father: Michael Maxis
Mother: Anna Maxis
Children: John Michael Scholer
Kate Florence Scholer

from image:-

Address:- 38 Museum Street, Bloomsbury, London
Age:- 42
Occupation:- Refreshment Room Keeper
Age of children: John Michael age 9, Kate Florence age 1

Residence status:- has resided in UK for 5 out of the last 8 years

Is this your family in 1911??

If so, it does seem to be the guy who got his Naturalization in 1897, not 1891 as you think.

Who told you it was 1891??


1911 Census

Name: John Micheal Scholer
Age in 1911: 55
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Germany
Civil Parish: Wembley
Search Photos: Search for 'Wembley' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street address: 42 Chaplin Road, Wembley, Middlx
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Retired Refreshment Room Keeper
Registration district: Hendon
Registration District Number: 130
Sub-registration district: Harrow
ED, institution, or vessel: 23
Household schedule number: 194
Piece: 7090

John Micheal Scholer 55
Agnes Charlotte Scholer 53 b.ca 1858, St Pancras, Surrey
John Micheal Scholer 22 b.ca 1889, Kensington. London, Single, Student
Annie Evelyn Beasley 22 Servant

From image:-

Married 24 years, 4 children born, 2 children died, 2 still alive

???????????


Johann Schuler

Deutschland Geburten und Taufen

Name Johann Schuler
Event Date 1839 - 1900
Event Date 1855
Gender Male
Birth Date 14 Jun 1855
Birth Year 1855
Christening Date 15 Jun 1855
Christening Place KATHOLISCH, BUCHENBACH, FREIBURG, BADEN
Father's Name Philipp Schuler
Mother's Name Theresia Andre

and here is that same family in 1891

1891 Census

Name: John M Scholer
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1888
Relation: Son
Father's name: John M Scholer
Mother's name: Agnes Scholer
Gender: Male
Where born: London, England
Civil Parish: St Pancras
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
County/Island: London
Country: England

Registration district: Pancras
Sub registration district: Tottenham Court
ED, institution, or vessel: 13

Piece: 121
Folio: 136
Page Number: 3

John M Scholer 35 b.ca 1856, Baden, Refreshment Room Keeper
Agnes Scholer 33 b.ca 1858, St Leonards on Sea, Refreshment Room Keeper
John M Scholer 3
Agnes E Scholer 9/12 b.ca 1890, London
Helen S Eaves 22 Domestic Servant
Jane Smith 43 Domestic Servant
Elizabeth Parkyn 21 Domestic Servant
Harry Colley 18 Waiter
Frederic G Deare 19 Waiter
George A Dumuin 19 Waiter
Sarah Drower 18 Domestic Servant

Address:- 14 Tottenham Court Road


I believe St Leonards on Sea is in Sussex, near Hastings

from freebmd

Births Jun 1888 (>99%)
SCHOLER John Michael Kensington 1a 170

Births Dec 1890 (>99%)
Scholer Emma Agnes Pancras 1b 26

Deaths Mar 1895 (>99%)
Scholer Emma Agnes 4 Pancras 1b 25

Births Dec 1895 (>99%)
Scholer Kate Florence Pancras 1b 33


??????

Births Sep 1901 (>99%)
SCHOLER Constance Louisa W. Ham 4a 449

Deaths Sep 1901 (>99%)
Scholer Constance Louisa 0 W.Ham 4a 250

1901 Census

Name: John Scholer
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Spouse: Agnes Scholer
Birth Place: Germany
Civil Parish: Wembley
Search Photos: Search for 'Wembley' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Ecclesiastical parish: Wembley St John
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Registration district: Hendon
Sub-registration district: Harrow
ED, institution, or vessel: 9

Piece: 1208
Folio: 100
Page Number: 9
Household schedule number: 67

John Scholer 45 Refreshment Room Keeper
Agnes Scholer 43 b.ca 1858, Hasting, Kent
Kate Scholer 5 b.ca 1896, London

Address:- Chaplin Rd

Ian ............

I know you said that you have most of the UK information ................. but I've posted these censuses to support the Naturalization of Johann Michael Scholer in 1897

Wife is same name

There is only one Joh*n S*oler showing in censuses on ancestry



Where did you get your information from?

I've already posted those Sylvia :-) 1891 and 1901

Marriages Sep 1919 (>99%)

Scholer Kate F Waghorn Hendon 3a 975
Waghorn Harry J Scholer Hendon 3a 975



London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

Name: Kate Florence Scholer
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1896
Age: 23
Spouse: Henry James Waghorn <<<<<< error that is corrected on the certificate
Spouse Age: 27
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 26 Jul 1919
Parish: St John the Evangelist, Wembley
Borough: Brent
Father Name: John Michael Scholer
Spouse Father: Harry Dawson Waghorn
Register Type: Parish Register

from image:-

Henry:-
Accountant
Father occupation:- Joiner, deceased

Note in margin:- ......... in column 2 read Harry for Henry

Kate:-
no occupation shown
Father occupation:- Gentleman, deceased

Witnesses:- S.L.S Sykes and (unreadable!!)

yes Ann


and Ian appears to have ignored them ..................... so I decided to re-post close to the Naturalisation certificate, with the added information


The fact remains that there is no other Joh*n Scholer appearing on the censuses in the UK, and all the names on these censuses fit names that Ian has, together with what appears to be wrong information, such as date of naturalisation and place of birth of Charlotte Agnes.

IF Ian had looked at these censuses, he would have seen that Charlotte Agnes never states her place of birth as being anywhere other than in or near Hasitngs.



Iain .............. have you bought the marriage certificate for who you think is your Joh*n and Charlotte?

That would tell you who Joh*n said was his father's name

I also think that it is possible that Charlotte Agnes was raised in London, and may not have been born in Sussex.

There IS an Agnes Dickson working in St Leonards on Sea as a servant in 1881, juse before Joh*n might have met her.

But this baptism seems to fit the dates for Charlotte


London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906

Name: Charlotte Agnes Dickson
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 15 Nov 1857
Father's name: Robert Dickson
Mother's name: Emma Dickson
Parish or Poor Law Union: Bloomsbury St George
Borough: Camden
Register Type: Parish Registers

from image:-
Born:- Oct 23 1857
Address:- High Holborn
Father occupation:- Butcher


getting that marriage certificate is needed to have the proof

SylviaInCanada

Wow, looks like you've nailed it. I got the naturalisation date froma husehold census form found through GR.

On your last post re marriage of Harry and Kate the copy of the certificate I have shows the names as T L T Sykes and A M Boothman (Bookman?)

Off to see if I can trace John jnr now...

Thank you so much :-D :-D :-D

Ian .........

glad I solved it

I just re-checked that 1911 Census, and yes, Johann did state "naturalised 20 years", and written 1891 on that same line

but he'd obviously got the time span wrong!

??????????????

did John Jr change his name to his mother's???


England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966

Name: John Michael Scholer
Probate Date: 26 Oct 1918
Registry: London, England
Death Date: 23 Sep 1918
Death Place: Middlesex, England

from image:-

Scholer John Michael of 42 Chaplin Road, Wembley, Middlesex, died 23 September 1918. Probate [granted] London 26 October 1918 to John Michael Dickson, Captain HM Army and John Savage, Architect. Effects £3227 2s 6d

Ok, sorry if you think I've missed stuff you've posted but there's sooo much.

Anyway I do have the marriage cert for John and Charlotte, also for Charlotte's parents. Not sure where I got the Dublin connection from, have to dig through the mass of notes I've made over the years :-S

Thanks again.

?????

UK, Memorial Books WWI and WWII, 1914-1945

Name: John Michael Dickson Scholer
Military Year Range: 1914-1919
Title: Roll of War Service

from image:-

Dickson (formerly Scholer), Captain John Michael, R.A.O.C.;: B.Sc. Birkbeck College. Mesopotamia Mch. 16 to June 18


so it looks as though he was in Mesopotamia (ie much of modern-day Iraq) from March 1916 to June 1918.