Genealogy Chat

john henderson macdonald. trying to find information as he was in this group

Susan, I think people might struggle with your query as it stands.
It would help if you said how you came by him in the first place, for example is it through a marriage or family information. Anything you know will help people who wish to advise you.
What sort of information are you looking for?
Jan

Is this the man in question?


Ontario, Canada Births, 1869-1913 about John Henderson McDonald
Name: John Henderson McDonald
Date of Birth: 22 Jul 1910
Gender: Male
Birth County or District: Wellington
Father's Name: James Henderson McDonald
Mother's name: Elizabeth Robertson
Archive Name: Archives of Ontario
Archive Series: MS929
Archive Reel: 215

Sorry it's obviously the wrong man I've posted as he would have been too young for WW1.

For ref from http://en.wikipedia.org

The formation of the 2nd Canadian Division began in May 1915 in Britain following the arrival of a large contingent of soldiers from Canada. The Division remained in Great Britain only a short time before embarking for France in September 1915. It joined the 1st Canadian Division to form the Canadian Corps. The division was under the command of Major-General R.E.W. Turner, and its members spent a long and bitterly cold winter in a Belgian section of the front between Ploegsteert Wood and Saint-Eloi, south of Ypres. Infantry units as well as artillery units of the 2nd Canadian Division served in both France and Flanders until Armistice Day.[citation needed]

http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/first-world-war-1914-1918-cef/Pages/search.aspx

as you can imagine there were many, many John Macdonalds in the Canadian Expeditionary Force

but there is no specific John Henderson Macdonald or Mcdonald

also no one by that name specifically among Canadian casualties

http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/remembrance/memorials/canadian-virtual-war-memorial


as has been mentioned, it would be wise to say what you know of him and what you are trying to find out

You can search via:
http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/first-world-war-1914-1918-cef/Pages/canadian-expeditionary-force.aspx

There are abt 1500 John MacDonalds in the CEF.
However, there is only 1 Henderson McDonald - maybe a relly?:
Name:MCDONALD, DAN HENDERSON
Regimental Number:645345
Date of Birth:24/12/1879
Reference: RG 150, Accession 1992-93/166, Box 6710 - 45
Item Number:145438

Currently, only his attestation papers are online:
http://data2.archives.ca/cef/gat4/136268a.gif
http://data2.archives.ca/cef/gat4/136268b.gif
[s/o Mrs M McDonald, formerly of Ferry Rd Edinburgh, now (13/1/16?) 24 Willosson? Dr Annisland Glasgow]

LAC say:
The digitization of the Canadian Expeditionary Forces (CEF) files is underway and a substantial number will be available on our website by the end of the summer as part of the Government of Canada First World War commemoration initiative. Additional files will be available in the fall and winter months as the CEF digitization initiative is a priority for us.
[The first quarter was A-D, MacDonald is probably in the 3rd quarter, so probably available a year from now.]

NB you can search using d.o.b. at:
http://search.ancestry.ca/search/db.aspx?dbid=1086
I've found that although enlistees sometimes lied abt their age, they rarely lied abt their b'day.

He was my father, born in Scotland in 1889. He joined the second canadian contingent and fought in France in the first world war. I think he went to Canada before that and maybe that is the reason he joined them. He married Florence Francis (Fanny) Walton in 1915. I am trying to find out about that period in his life.

Scotlands People shows this birth - you can get parent details from the site, but it is Pay to View. NOTE the spelling of the surname in both cases MCDONALD not Mac Donald.

1889 MCDONALD JOHN HENDERSON M TARBERT (ARGYLL) /ARGYLL 535/00 0022

So, possibly him on this 1891 census

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Cuiluashawraig, South Knapdale, Tarbert, Argyllshire, Scotland

Print household transcription Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Robert McDonald Head Married Male 36 1855 Game Keeper Sinclairtown, Fife, Scotland
Jane H McDonald Wife Married Female 40 1851 - Lesmahagow, Lanarkshire, Scotland
James P McDonald Son - Male 9 1882 Scholar Largs, Ayrshire, Scotland
Agnes M McDonald Daughter - Female 7 1884 - Largs, Ayrshire, Scotland
Isabella P McDonald Daughter - Female 4 1887 - Largs, Ayrshire, Scotland
John H McDonald Son - Male 1 1890 - Argyllshire, Scotland

thank you for the last piece of information, that is indeed him.
Thank you to everyone who has replied, it was totally unexpected, as I am just seriously tackling this now. The name difference is interesting, Shall look at that as well.

A tree on ancestry has this for him.


John Henderson Macdonald
Birth 26 May 1889 in Sth: Knapdale, Argyll
Death 20 Aug 1966 in Sedgefield, Co Durham, England


Spouse and Children

Vera Marguerite Bell
1913 – 1972

Private

Stephen Wentworth Macdonald
1952 – 1998


Spouse and Children

Florence Frances Walton
1889 –

Charles C Macdonald

Kenneth Macdonald
1920 –

William A Macdonald
1924 –

Ronald Macdonald
1935 –

This looks like Robert and Jane's marriage. So still no A. Looks like that's where the Henderson comes from.

1 credit to get a page of results - up to 24/5 on a page and then 5 credits will get you a look at the certificate and it can be downloaded. £7=30credits.
Certs. available to download are births over 100 years ago, marriages over 75 and deaths 50 years. Also see full census and the 1911 only available on SP

1880 MCDONALD ROBERT HENDERSON JANE LARGS (AYR) /AYR 602/00 0026

Back to with the A on the following census
1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
St Fillanswell, Largs, Ayrshire, Scotland

Print household transcription Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Robert MacDonald Head Married Male 25 1856 Gamekeeper Fife, Scotland
Jeanie MacDonald Wife Married Female 31 1850 Gamekeeper Wife Lesmahagow, Lanarkshire, Scotland

I was known as Macdonald, but there are so many variations on this.
I am still a novice at this and dont understand what SP is!
Also the children listed, Charles, Kenneth, William and Ronald , I dont think are correct. Ronald just happens to have a link to Atcham where Florence was married to my father.

http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/

Welcome to ScotlandsPeople
The official Scottish genealogy resource

Welcome to ScotlandsPeople, one of the largest online sources of original genealogical information. If you are researching UK genealogy, your Scottish ancestry or building your Scottish family tree, we have almost 90 million records to look through.

From Scottish census records, Scottish wills, birth certificates and death certificates, we have a comprehensive choice of Scottish records to bring your Scotland ancestry to life. Build the complete picture of your Scottish ancestry with ScotlandsPeople.

-------------------------
A Pay to view website where you can look for (and download within the parameters as previous post) bmd's etc. A lot can be gleaned for free by manipulating the questions you ask. The great advantage is that you can see the certificates in front of your eyes and they give more information than English ones.

Post official registration that began in 1855 for example you might find when parents married on a birth certificate, names of both parents including mothers maiden name on a marriage certificate, parents names on a death certificate etc. Pre 1855, you will get parish registers, again often have mmn on baptisms.

I have become completely confused by this ...

Susan could you not answer what it is you know of him and what info you are looking for?

'Florence' is John's second wife and John was your father?

what is the info you have that he was in the Canadian forces in WWI although he was born in Scotland and died in England, if that is the correct info?


(alviegal
just a suggestion ... might you consider leaving the info about
Ontario, Canada Births, 1869-1913 about John Henderson McDonald
Name: John Henderson McDonald
Date of Birth: 22 Jul 1910
and then deleting all of the other info about that person since yes he is too young to be Susan's man :-D
it would make the thread easier to read ...)

ok. John Henderson Macdonald (McDonald) was my father, born 1889 in Tarbert, Loch Fyne, Scotland in 1889.
Father Robert, mother Jeannie (Jane,Jenny)
My father married his first wife, Florence Francis (Fanny) Walton in 1915.
At time he was with the second canadian contingent and went to fight in France. Why he was with them I dont know. I think he may have gone to live/work in Canada before the war. He stayed in France for 2 years after the war (unverified but from a newspaper article in 1933 mentioned)
What I am most interested in is when he divorced first wife. and what happened to her. She was born Preston, Lancs around 1888
Married my mother in 1940. Vera Marguerite Bell in Yorkshire.
My father was not born in Canada or the USA
In the 1950s, he tried to get a pension from the canadian government because of shrapnel injuries he received, but wasnt given anything.

The MacDonald/McDonald thing is interesting (I think).
My g gran was Elizabeth Johnston.
This is the spelling on her baptism, and the one she used on her marr, and the one my g uncle Allan used when rego'ing my grandad & his parents' deaths.
However, Eliz had 6 kids - two were rego'ed by her, and 4 by my g grandad. Each used the spelling Johnstone once.
My grandad used the spelling Johnstone on his marr, and his bro's death - he also gave my aunt the forenames Elizabeth Johnstone.
It seems there was a state of flux.

On Sp's homepage http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/ there's a searchbox that says howmany (and what) hits you'll get for any name.

Putting in Johnston, then Johnstone gets:
Census 1841 12726 matches, then Census 1841 3450 matches
with a bit of calculation, I get:

1841 Total 16136 Johnstone 21.3%
1851 Total 18358 Johnstone 25.7%
1861 Total 19648 Johnstone 28.1%
1871 Total 21608 Johnstone 33.1%
1881 Total 24542 Johnstone 38.0%
1891 Total 27003 Johnstone 40.6%
1901 Total 29582 Johnstone 43.3%
1911 Total 31149 Johnstone 42.0%

Clearly there's a fair # of Johnston's adopting the spelling Johnstone.
[There was also a shift from Slesser to Slessor]

Since we started our example with Cristian, named after her gran, I tried just a forename:

Christian
Census 1841 22569 matches
Census 1851 17526 matches
Census 1861 10329 matches
Census 1871 6128 matches
Census 1881 3709 matches
Census 1891 2765 matches
Census 1901 2408 matches
Census 1911 1952 matches

Now there's a name falling out of favour - I suppose the variant Christine sounded too English, but there has recently been a resurgence in the variant Kirsten.

here is your father's first marriage

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Marriages Sep 1915
Macdonald John Walton Atcham 6a 1725
Walton Florence F Macdonald Atcham 6a 1725

there is a Florence F Walton marriage in 1932, but it seems not to be your Florence because
- there was another Florence F(reda) Walton born, in 1907
- your Florence's first married surname would likely have been entered in the record of a second marriage

this would be your Florence's birth

Births Sep 1885
Walton Florence Frances Northampton 3b 53

but I don't see a Florence F Mc/Macdonald death at Ancestry to match that birth

she might have partnered with another man and used his surname, and her death could be registered under that name

it can be possible to identify a death in such a case using just given names and exact date of birth to search the deaths index - but full middle names and exact dob are only shown after 1969, so she would have had to live to 85 for that to be possible to identify

if you obtained her birth certificate, or if you know her date of birth, it could be tried

there is actually only one Florence Frances death with birthdate that matches a birth registered in September quarter 1885 (i.e. late May to end of Sept 1885)

Florence Frances Fowler (23 aug 1885), died 1969 Bristol

I don't see a marriage for a Florence F to a Fowler, or a birth of a Florence F Fowler in or around 1885, so this could possibly be your Florence

if you got your Florence's birth certificate you would know her date of birth
if it matched with that death, the death certificate would tell you who registered the death and this could help to find more info

(someone has a Florence Walton born 1885 Grimsbury Northamptonshire in their tree here at genesreunited, but that is a different Florence)


to try to find John in Canadian military records you would have to go to the site I posted above and look through all the search results for John Mc/Macdonalds, for those with a birthdate in 1889, and then look at the image for those Johns to see whether the info on the attestation papers matches your John (mother's name, place of birth, etc.)

how do I delete threads which are not relevent, ie not my relative?

I have taken JoonieCloonie's advice and deleted the info about the wrong John. I have kept the birth I found to let other searchers know that this is the wrong person and not to bother following the family up.

In future, please post all relevant information in your opening post ie year and place of birth, parents' names, spouse's name and where you get your information from.

This way you have much less chance of getting irrelevant information sent to you.

<3

hm, you're welcome Susan