Genealogy Chat

I looked on the 1841 census, and it had John Wise aged 15, born 1826, living with Mr.Bailey etc... I know his father was John Wise, and mother probably Sarah Theobald; so what's going on here then, surely he should be living with his parents ? Also, what is the Favernham union, mentioned on this census return ?

Faversham Union is the workhouse

Edit having looked at the entries in this case its the area reg district rather than the workhouse

What about this one ?
1841 census
Name: John Wise
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Gender: Male
Where born: Kent, England
Civil Parish: Sheldwick
Hundred: Faversham
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

View Image
Registration District: Faversham
Sub-registration District: Boughton
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 475
Book: 17
Folio: 15
Page Number: 3
Household Members:
Name Age
John Wise 40 occ ag lab
Sarah Wise 35
George Wise 20
John Wise 15
Alfred Wise 11
Sarah Wise 9
Samuel Wise 7
Stephen Wise 4
Emma Wise 1

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 475; Book: 17; Civil Parish: Sheldwick; County: Kent; Enumeration District: 11; Folio: 15; Page: 3; Line: 11; GSU roll: 306870.

1841 census


Person: WISE, John Address: Well's Forstall, Sheldwich

WISE, John M 40 1801 Kent VIEW
WISE, Sarah F 35 1806 Kent VIEW
WISE, George M 20 1821 Kent VIEW
WISE, John M 15 1826 Kent VIEW
WISE, Alfred M 11 1830 Kent VIEW
WISE, Sarah F 9 1832 Kent VIEW
WISE, Samuel M 7 1834 Kent VIEW
WISE, Stephen M 4 1837 Kent VIEW
WISE, Emma F 1 1840 Kent VIEW Piece: 475 Book/Folio: 17/15 Page: 3 Registration District: Faversham Union Civil Parish: Sheldwich Municipal Borough: Address: Well's Forstall, Sheldwich County: Kent

Faversham (not FaverNham) Union is the Registration District.............. as indicated on the record

And why do you think he was living with people called BAILEY?

This one has Baileys in the same household...........at a guess, in-laws......but the (probable) parents named are not John and Sarah


1841 census


Person: WISE, John Address: Tanners Street, East Side, Faversham

WISE, Thomas M 40 1801 Kent VIEW
WISE, Elizabeth F 40 1801 Kent VIEW
WISE, John M 15 1826 Kent VIEW
WISE, Caleb M 8 1833 Kent VIEW
WISE, James M 5 1836 Kent VIEW
WISE, Emma F 3 1838 Kent VIEW
WISE, Jane F 0 (6 months) 1841 Kent VIEW
BAILEY, John M 60 1781 Kent VIEW
BAILEY, Sarah F 65 1776 Kent VIEW Piece: 472 Book/Folio: 19/35 Page: 22 Registration District: Faversham Union Civil Parish: Faversham Municipal Borough: Faversham Address: Tanners Street, East Side, Faversham County: Kent

As a general point, 15 was quite old enough to be living away from parents ..............children were put into service or employment from the age of 10 upwards

The one with mr bailey has parents Thomas and Elizabeth with him



1841 census transcription details for: Tanners Street, East Side, Faversham

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National Archive Reference:
RG number: HO107
Piece: 472
Book/Folio: 19/35
Page: 22
Reg. District: Faversham Union
Sub District: Faversham & Ospringe
Parish: Faversham
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough: Faversham
Address: Tanners Street, East Side, Faversham
County: Kent
Name Relation Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
WISE, Thomas M 40 1801 Kent
WISE, Elizabeth F 40 1801 Kent
WISE, John M 15 1826 Kent
WISE, Caleb M 8 1833 Kent
WISE, James M 5 1836 Kent
WISE, Emma F 3 1838 Kent
WISE, Jane F 0 (6 months) 1841 Kent
BAILEY, John M 60 1781 Kent
BAILEY, Sarah F 65 1776 Kent

It's the reg district

Here he is in 1851



1851 census transcription details for: 1, Globe Square, Rotherhithe

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National Archive Reference:
RG number: HO107
Piece: 1583
Folio: 10
Page: 13
Reg. District: Rotherhithe
Sub District: Rotherhithe
Parish: Rotherhithe
Enum. District: 1
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 1, Globe Square, Rotherhithe
County: Surrey
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
WISE, John Head Married M 25 1826 Labourer
Sheldwich, Kent
WISE, Ann Wife Married F 23 1828
Maldask, Kent

Thanks very much for the info above. My John Wise married Ann Drury, ( He did move to Rotherhithe, so, the above is correct) his father was also called: John Wise. Can someone confirm that his mother was: Sarah Theobald ? I need an expert on this, lol :-D P.s I know my John Wise married Ann Drury in Rotherhithe 1850, two witness at the marriage were: William Wise and Sarah Wise, they were probably his brother and sister, but not 100% sure ? Has his father as: John Wise, Ann Drury father as: William Drury, on this marriage C too. At the moment... I'm pretty sure his mother was Sarah Theobald, however, need to be 100% sure.

For reference, as the Sarah Theobalds question has come up before on this previous thread...

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1321469

Hello Kucinta! Thanks for the reminder. This is my problem, why I did this thread too: John Wise born Kent abt 1826, also seen: 1823 1825, and mentioned born in various places on census returns, because John is a common first name and there are quite a few people with the Wise surname born in Kent about this time, I have to be 100% that there is not another John Wise born abt the same time with a father also called John Wise; not impossible! At the moment I'm quite sure that my John Wise parents were: John Wise and Sarah Theobald, but need to see it written down somewhere, regarding his mother's maiden surname,not easy though! Ps. Yes, he did have a brother and sister called: Sarah Wise and a brother called: William Wise, they were witnesses on his marriage C, (I take it they were his brother/sister), once again both names: Sarah/William are very common first names.

??
Parish Record Collection - Marriage Record

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Day: 30
Month: Dec
Year: 1819
Groom's Forename(s): John Francis
Groom's Surname: Wise
Groom's Age:
Groom's Parish: Selling
Bride's Forename(s): Sarah
Bride's Surname: Theobalds
Bride's Age:
Bride's Parish: Selling
Groom's Father's Forename(s):
Groom's Father's Surname:
Bride's Father's Forename(s):
Bride's Father's Surname:
Page: 8
Place: Selling, St Mary the Virgin
County: Kent
Archive Reference: U3/229/1/7
Year Range: 1813-1837
Record source: Canterbury Marriages - Transcripts
Data provider: Canterbury Cathedral Archives

Mavis had mentioned the Selling marriage on the earlier thread;

"John Francis Wise = Sarah Theobalds 30 Dec 1819 Selling Kent. [ Faversham]"

working from some Kent cds she had.

I believe you have been asked on previous occasions by experienced helpers on the boards not to start new threads about the same families (last time I think it was a thread relating to the Sprules and you eventually deleted the duplicate thread), as helpers end up spending their time simply repeating research that has already been done by other helpers previously.

Yes, that's them: John Wise parents: John Francis Wise and Sarah Theobalds, I think ????

There was an A Bishop of Canterbury way back in the past... with the surname: Theobald, wonder if any connection ?

Always remember that ages of people over the age of 15 were to be rounded DOWN to the nearest 5 on the 1841 census ........

........... so someone shown as 15 could actually be aged between 15 and 19


Ages shown on any of the other censuses may be as much as 2 years out, with 1 year out being common.

The census asked for the age in years, and that could vary depending on when the census was taken vs birth date.

Modern transcribers have to translate the age in years into possible year of birth.


This is why you usually see ages written as "about 15", or birth year as "ca 1826".

This also explains why you are seeing a range of birth years.


You have to find the Parish Record (or birth certificate for births after 1837) in order to determine the true year of birth.


The place of birth may also vary ......................

the enumerator of the day might ask "where were you born?" OR "where are you from?"

and may get different answers, if the person had moved from place of birth.

There may have been a dialect problem for the enumerator understanding what the householder was saying.

OR the enumerator may have said something along the lines of the following ........

"Croker? Where's that then? Never heard of it!"

"It's near Taunton"

"Ah, ok. I've heard of that"

........... and Taunton was put down as place of birth!


Someone else may have been asked for the information (for example, a neighbour or lodger), and made a guess.


In some cases, a person was born in one place but his family moved when s/he was a baby to somewhere else. S/he may then believe that they were born in the place where they grew up.


Remember .................. most of our ancestors were illiterate, and places and dates of birth mattered far less to them than such things do to us.

Also, regarding the gae of 15, and "shouldn't he have been with his parents.

NO ............................... children left home to work from a very young age in those days.

It is almost unusual to find someone aged 15 still living at home ..........

........ they move to be labourer on a farm, and board there, or become servants to better off people and live in. Even shop assistants would board with the shop owner, or sleep in the shop, or in a dormitory.


Children as young as 5 or 6 would be out at work.

Point taken Kucinta, in future I will keep to the one thread on my family research. Excuse me.

Thank you Graham. I'm sure it will be appreciated.

:-)

Ok Kucinta. :-) Also thanks SCanada, for your information, Kucinta, also gave me some info regarding your Census ideas etc... :-D