Genealogy Chat

OK I'm new at this, but I need some advice on where I go from here.
I have traced an ancestor (great grandfather called Henry Lawrence) back to his birth in 1847 but cannot find any trace of his father as I don;t know his first name and only know he was born in the Midlands. Nothing obvious in the census records, nor BMD. Where (and how) should I look next? All you experts - what would you do? I'm sure it's something obvious that I haven't thought of.
Cheers,
Martyn

Hi Martyn and wrlcome to the GR message boards.

His fathers name and occupation will be on his marriage cert, if the details were known.

Where have you found Henry in the census records and who and where did he marry? If you care to post the details, then people on here can take a look for you.

Andy

Do you have his marriage cert? That will have fathers name on it

If you buy Henry's marriage certificate it should name his father.

Kath. x

Do you have him born Staffs? (Having checked 'search all trees' and found a Martyn there!).

Is this him?


1901 Wales Census

Name: Henry Lawrence
Age in 1901: 54
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah J Lawrence
Gender: Male
Where born: Wednesbury, Staffordshire, England

Civil parish: Newport
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales

Henry Lawrence 54
Sarah J Lawrence 53
Sarah J Lawrence 23
Elizabeth A Lawrence 21
Edith M Lawrence 15

If so (I think the birthplace is likely to be Smethwick):


1851 Wales Census

Name: Henry Lawrence
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John Lawrence
Mother's Name: Hannah Lawrence
Gender: Male
Where born: Sanathwick, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish or Township: St Woollos
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
Town: Newport
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales
Registration district: Newport
Sub-registration district: Newport

John Lawrence 49
Hannah Lawrence 37
Jno W Lawrence 9
Hannah Lawrence 8
Mary Lawrence 6
Henry Lawrence 3
Esther Lawrence 7 Mo

Something you may not be aware of..........until 1875, there were no penalties for not registering births. Always bear that in mind..............

Births Jun 1841 Lawrence John William Pershore 18 441 (reg'n district for Upton Snodsbury)
Births Sep 1842 Lawrence Hannah Pershore 18 403
Births Dec 1844 Lawrence Mary Pershore 18 418
Births Jun 1847 Lawrence Henry Kings Norton 18 398 (Smethwick was in this reg'n district for a while.)
Births Sep 1850 Lawrence Esther King's Norton 18 428

The family is scattered in 1861. Possibly the parents died, or John did and Hannah remarried as I can't find the others yet.

1861 England Census
Name: Hannah Lawrence
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1842
Relation: Visitor
Gender: Female
Where born: Upper Shuckburgh, Worcestershire, England [Snodsbury on image]
Civil parish: Clifton
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
County/Island: Gloucestershire


1861 England Census
Name: Mary Lawrence
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relation: Niece
Gender: Female
Where born: Upton Snodsbury, Worcestershire, England
Civil parish: St Nicholas
Town: Worcester
County/Island: Worcestershire
Robart Harpham Mary abt 1796 Laxton, Nottinghamshire, England Head St Nicholas, Worcestershire
Mary Harpham Robart abt 1805 Hallow, Worcestershire, England Wife St Nicholas, Worcestershire [probably sister of John Lawrence as same birthplace.]
Mary L Harpham Robart, Mary abt 1838 All Saints, Derbyshire, England Daughter St Nicholas, Worcestershire
Mary Lawrence abt 1845 Upton Snodsbury, Worcestershire, England Niece St Nicholas, Worcestershire

This is a funny old game but looking at (brummiejan) 1901 census (and if it is correct) with Henry Lawrence born in Wednesbury Staff. Just by chance I am trying to sort out a brickwall this week and the name is George Smith. He may have married an Emma Lawrence of Wednesbury Staffs June 1882 . I have just sent for a birth cert of one of their children to confirm the mothers maiden name. If it turns out to be Lawrence I shall return to this post.-jl

Thank you all so much for your responses - I really didn't expect so much. I know quite a lot of what some of you have confirmed about Henry Lawrence. He was born in Smethwick in 1847 but moved to Cardiff in 1850(ish) - his father was a railway wagon builder so I assume his job took him there. Henry married Sarah Jane Starr from Congresbury, Somerset, in 1866 and they had 10 children, of whom seven survived beyond childhood. I have a family photo taken in about the 1880s. I have today ordered the marriage certificate but it seems I may not need it as Brummiejan has supplied names I needed, which I failed to find from any census or BMD records online. You mention 'Wales Census 1851' Brummiejan. Where did you locate that? It was this information I needed to try to trace Henry's family back a bit further.
Henry lived into his 90s until 1941 (I have found a marvellous newspaper cutting from 1938 about his life on the occasion of his 91st birthday) and moved on from wagion building to building houses in Newport.
Again, many thanks to all and I'll post what I find out if it's interesting.

The 1851 census is on Ancestry.
Jan

Re: You mention 'Wales Census 1851' Brummiejan. Where did you locate that?

That's an Ancestry thing. From their main menu bar, selct Search - Census etc. and under their search screen, there's a listing of all the individual censuses.
So Ancestry have an 1851 for the Channel Islands, Isle of Man, England, Wales, Scotland (and also Republic of Ireland & Northern Ireland census abstracts).

FMP, GR and FreeCEN don't seperate these out.

The censuses in all localities was very similar for persons - there was a bit more variability in categorizing buildings, but the only difference for persons was that there might be a question on language - English, native or both - in Wales, Scotland, Ireland, and there might be an optional question on religion in Ireland.

This looks like most of the family minus Hannah in 1861 - with John listed as born in Hallow

1861

Name: John Lawrance
Age: 60
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1801
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Worchester, Hallow

Civil Parish or Township: Roath
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales

Street Address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image

Registration district: Cardiff
Sub-registration district: Cardiff
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Household schedule number: 137
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4039
Folio: 44
Page Number: 21
Household Members:
Name Age
John Lawrance 60 Widower - Carpenter
Henry Lawrance 14
Esther Lawrance 10
Catharine Loughor 22 Servant

Thanks K
I have discovered that Hannah died in Cardiff in 1856 and I also traced two of the remaining three kids to where they were living. Now I have my 'leads' I am discovering lots of useful stuff.
One question: just read PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING at the head of this page and it appears I should be using the Find Ancestors page for this stuff rather than this one, although there doesn't seem to be so much on it. Should I continue anything re this thread in there?
Thanks

And thanks Ozbird to you. I had found these refs on the 1861 census so it was good to see them confirmed.

Stick to this thread now, Martyn, so all the info stays together.

Most people who help out on this site check the other boards as well.


1841 England Census
Name: John Lawrance
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1801
Gender: Male
Where born: Worcestershire, England
Civil parish: Upton Snodsbury
Hundred: Pershore (Upper Division)
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England
Street Address: Cousdon

Occupation: Wheelwright

Registration district: Pershore
Sub-registration district: Upton Snodsbury
Household Members:
John Lawrance abt 1801 Worcestershire, England Upton Snodsbury, Worcestershire
Hannah Lawrance abt 1816 Worcestershire, England Upton Snodsbury, Worcestershire
Richard Lawrance abt 1839 Worcestershire, England Upton Snodsbury, Worcestershire
John Lawrance abt 1841 Worcestershire, England Upton Snodsbury, Worcestershire

Births Mar 1839 Lawrence Richard Thomas Pershore 18 427
Deaths Sep 1846 Lawrence Richard Thomas King's Norton 18 308


from www.familysearch.org
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
name: Richard Thomas Laurence
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 06 Jan 1839
baptism/christening place: UPTON SNODSBURY, WORCESTER, ENGLAND
father's name: John Laurence
mother's name: Hannah
indexing project (batch) number: C01388-2

I think this maybe Henry's parent's marriage.

England, Marriages, 1538–1973
groom's name: John Laurence
bride's name: Hannah Haynes
marriage date: 16 Jan 1837
marriage place: Saint Alban,Worcester,Worcester,England
indexing project (batch) number: M01379-1


Because of this:
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
name: Hannah Haynes
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 31 Mar 1816
baptism/christening place: FECKENHAM, WORCESTER, ENGLAND
father's name: Richard Haynes
mother's name: Hannah
indexing project (batch) number: P01245-3

Hannah is born Peckenham in 1851 and there is no such place in Worcestershire. The transcription from the image is correct so possibly the enumerator originally made the error.

????
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
FECKENHAM, WORCESTER, ENGLAND
parents: Richard Haines, Hannah

Hannah Haynes - christening: 31 Mar 1816

Edward Haines - christening: 20 Dec 1825
Mary Haines - christening: 26 Aug 1827
Jane Haynes - christening: 03 Jul 1822
Sarah Haynes - christening: 03 Jul 1822
Jane Haynes - christening: 01 Jul 1823
John Haynes - christening: 18 Jan 1830

And this could be Henry Lawrence's grandmother in 1851 with her daughter Mary.
1851 England Census
Name: Hannah Haynes
Age: 68
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1783
Relation: Mother-in-law
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Ombersley, Worcestershire, England
Civil parish: Naunton Beauchamp
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England
Street Address: Cottage
Occupation: Pauper Wheelwrights widow
Condition as to marriage: widow

Household Members:
John Fryer: Mary abt 1825 Eckington, Worcestershire, England Head Naunton Beauchamp, Worcestershire - farm labourer
Mary Fryer : Hannah, John abt 1826 Feckenham, Worcestershire, England Wife Naunton Beauchamp, Worcestershire - Gloveress
William Fryer : John, Mary abt 1846 Naunton Beauchamp, Worcestershire, England Son Naunton Beauchamp, Worcestershire
Richard Fryer: John, Mary abt 1849 Naunton Beauchamp, Worcestershire, England Son Naunton Beauchamp, Worcestershire
Hannah Haynes abt 1783 Ombersley, Worcestershire, England Mother-in-law Naunton Beauchamp, Worcestershire


You'll notice that Hannah Haynes is a wheelwright's widow and that John Lawrence was a wheelwright in 1841.


????
Deaths Mar 1847 Haynes Richard Pershore 18 419

Oh my goodness, coincidence??

England, Marriages, 1538–1973
groom's name: Richard Haynes
bride's name: Hannah Lawrence
marriage date: 22 Jan 1805
marriage place: Saint Martin, Worcester, Worcester, England
indexing project (batch) number: M04618-1

England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
name: Hannah Lawrence
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 24 Apr 1785
baptism/christening place: OMBERSLEY, WORCESTER, ENGLAND
father's name: William Lawrence
mother's name: Elizabeth
indexing project (batch) number: C04028-3