Genealogy Chat

Thanks Ozi, much appreciated. I'll see what else I can find.
Martyn

Thanks, mgnv.

BTW, Martyn, familysearch.org is a free site.

Ozi

Re: "Do you mind telling me where you found the details on your 'Oh my goodness, coincidence?' post."

From collections at
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1®ion=UNITED_KINGDOM_IRELAND
specifically
"England, Marriages, 1538–1973 ," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NVTF-W6R : accessed 16 Oct 2012), Richard Haynes and Hannah Lawrence, 22 Jan 1805; citing reference , FHL microfilm 415132, 415133, 415134, 415135, 561598.
"England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JWHV-53J : accessed 16 Oct 2012), Hannah Lawrence, 24 Apr 1785; citing reference , FHL microfilm 465271.

Ozibird,
Do you mind telling me where you found the details on your 'Oh my goodness, coincidence?' post.
Thanks a lot

Thanks K,
I'll let you know when I have time time to ask them.
Martyn

I work in Worcester. The Record Office is now part of the Hive.

If you ask them if they have prisoners detials prior to 1839 I am happy to go and check them

Thanks K, that's useful yo know. I'd love to know what he did.

The calander of prisoners at the Worcester listed the people after their hearings by quarter between 1839-1849.

If Richard Haynes had been convicted and was already in prison pre 1839 he would not be included on this list.

Ozbird - repeat last post which seems to have disappeared. Your 'oh my goodness' post I am still trying to get my head round but it is certainly worth further investigation. But I think I have also found Richard Haynes banged up in the County Gaol and House of Correction, Claines, North Worcester in the 1841 census, aged 55, which would account for Hannah living alone with Mary. But having looked up the prison calendar for the prison http://www.worcestershire.gov.uk/cms/pdf/Indexes-Prisoners-1839-1849.pdf
a Richard Haines (sic) appears in his 20s but no other mentioned so not sure what to believe. I don't know if there are any other avenues left.

Ozbird, I think you may have indeed uncovered a coincidence in your last post but I am still trying to get my head around it. What I think I may have found is that Hannah Haynes' husband Richard Haynes is not with her in the 1841 census (she is living alone with Mary) - but I have a terrible feeling Richard was banged up in the County Gaol and House of Correction in Claines , Worcester. It all seems to fit and he is indeed down as a 'prisoner wheelwright'. Am trying to find out more but if you have any insights please let me know.
Martyn

I've got to go too, and START my day.

Happy hunting,
Ozi

I'll have to get my head round your last post as it's late and I'm getting the names mixed up. But the Haynes/Lawrence combination will definitely need unravelling.

This has been so helpful. A lot of what you have found out I had been gradually piecing together and I have even found out that one of the kids went to live with her aunt in Worcester and another as a housemaid to a rich lady in Clifton, Bristol, after Hannah died. But key pieces of information were eluding me. You'll be pleased to know that you have filled in the gap about John and Hannah's marriage. I had a couple pf possibilities for Hannah's maiden name but neither were correct. Looks as though you have nailed it. I was only using GR and trying to find other sources for baptism and marriage records, so thanks for that. It looks ad though it's worth trawling through other sites too. This has opened up lots more possibilities to research further back.
All the best

Oh my goodness, coincidence??

England, Marriages, 1538–1973
groom's name: Richard Haynes
bride's name: Hannah Lawrence
marriage date: 22 Jan 1805
marriage place: Saint Martin, Worcester, Worcester, England
indexing project (batch) number: M04618-1

England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
name: Hannah Lawrence
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 24 Apr 1785
baptism/christening place: OMBERSLEY, WORCESTER, ENGLAND
father's name: William Lawrence
mother's name: Elizabeth
indexing project (batch) number: C04028-3

????
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
FECKENHAM, WORCESTER, ENGLAND
parents: Richard Haines, Hannah

Hannah Haynes - christening: 31 Mar 1816

Edward Haines - christening: 20 Dec 1825
Mary Haines - christening: 26 Aug 1827
Jane Haynes - christening: 03 Jul 1822
Sarah Haynes - christening: 03 Jul 1822
Jane Haynes - christening: 01 Jul 1823
John Haynes - christening: 18 Jan 1830

And this could be Henry Lawrence's grandmother in 1851 with her daughter Mary.
1851 England Census
Name: Hannah Haynes
Age: 68
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1783
Relation: Mother-in-law
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Ombersley, Worcestershire, England
Civil parish: Naunton Beauchamp
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England
Street Address: Cottage
Occupation: Pauper Wheelwrights widow
Condition as to marriage: widow

Household Members:
John Fryer: Mary abt 1825 Eckington, Worcestershire, England Head Naunton Beauchamp, Worcestershire - farm labourer
Mary Fryer : Hannah, John abt 1826 Feckenham, Worcestershire, England Wife Naunton Beauchamp, Worcestershire - Gloveress
William Fryer : John, Mary abt 1846 Naunton Beauchamp, Worcestershire, England Son Naunton Beauchamp, Worcestershire
Richard Fryer: John, Mary abt 1849 Naunton Beauchamp, Worcestershire, England Son Naunton Beauchamp, Worcestershire
Hannah Haynes abt 1783 Ombersley, Worcestershire, England Mother-in-law Naunton Beauchamp, Worcestershire


You'll notice that Hannah Haynes is a wheelwright's widow and that John Lawrence was a wheelwright in 1841.


????
Deaths Mar 1847 Haynes Richard Pershore 18 419

I think this maybe Henry's parent's marriage.

England, Marriages, 1538–1973
groom's name: John Laurence
bride's name: Hannah Haynes
marriage date: 16 Jan 1837
marriage place: Saint Alban,Worcester,Worcester,England
indexing project (batch) number: M01379-1


Because of this:
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
name: Hannah Haynes
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 31 Mar 1816
baptism/christening place: FECKENHAM, WORCESTER, ENGLAND
father's name: Richard Haynes
mother's name: Hannah
indexing project (batch) number: P01245-3

Hannah is born Peckenham in 1851 and there is no such place in Worcestershire. The transcription from the image is correct so possibly the enumerator originally made the error.

Stick to this thread now, Martyn, so all the info stays together.

Most people who help out on this site check the other boards as well.


1841 England Census
Name: John Lawrance
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1801
Gender: Male
Where born: Worcestershire, England
Civil parish: Upton Snodsbury
Hundred: Pershore (Upper Division)
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England
Street Address: Cousdon

Occupation: Wheelwright

Registration district: Pershore
Sub-registration district: Upton Snodsbury
Household Members:
John Lawrance abt 1801 Worcestershire, England Upton Snodsbury, Worcestershire
Hannah Lawrance abt 1816 Worcestershire, England Upton Snodsbury, Worcestershire
Richard Lawrance abt 1839 Worcestershire, England Upton Snodsbury, Worcestershire
John Lawrance abt 1841 Worcestershire, England Upton Snodsbury, Worcestershire

Births Mar 1839 Lawrence Richard Thomas Pershore 18 427
Deaths Sep 1846 Lawrence Richard Thomas King's Norton 18 308


from www.familysearch.org
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
name: Richard Thomas Laurence
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 06 Jan 1839
baptism/christening place: UPTON SNODSBURY, WORCESTER, ENGLAND
father's name: John Laurence
mother's name: Hannah
indexing project (batch) number: C01388-2

And thanks Ozbird to you. I had found these refs on the 1861 census so it was good to see them confirmed.

Thanks K
I have discovered that Hannah died in Cardiff in 1856 and I also traced two of the remaining three kids to where they were living. Now I have my 'leads' I am discovering lots of useful stuff.
One question: just read PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING at the head of this page and it appears I should be using the Find Ancestors page for this stuff rather than this one, although there doesn't seem to be so much on it. Should I continue anything re this thread in there?
Thanks

This looks like most of the family minus Hannah in 1861 - with John listed as born in Hallow

1861

Name: John Lawrance
Age: 60
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1801
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Worchester, Hallow

Civil Parish or Township: Roath
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales

Street Address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image

Registration district: Cardiff
Sub-registration district: Cardiff
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Household schedule number: 137
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4039
Folio: 44
Page Number: 21
Household Members:
Name Age
John Lawrance 60 Widower - Carpenter
Henry Lawrance 14
Esther Lawrance 10
Catharine Loughor 22 Servant