Genealogy Chat

Just to update anyone following my strand of this thread: I just phoned GRO in Dublin and they confirm that the husband apparently missing from the index is indeed Albert Beakhust. I guess the records are computerised, as the call handler had all info in front of him faster than you could say "Ellen Orr, 1914". The ID number of this event is 1699100, and to order full price certificates on line, put 1 jan 1920 as date, tick the approx date box and add the rest of the details in the reg district box. I guess they will eventually update the web site.
And of course I had not looked properly- the military record of 1914 does indeed have Ellen as kin, with the marriage date.
I am away from my computer at present but the 1903 record was either on Ancestry or Findmypast, and until I look at the data on my PC I forget which it was. I was only searching on surname in the military records, but I always try two spellings Beakhust and Beakhurst, as well as checking the variants box if nothing appears.
I have more recently on sites that allow searched for Beak*t. This throws up some false positives but I have found events indexed as Beakhunt that are beakhuRst or Beakhust.

Dave, the pension records I quoted are those on Ancestry UK. It basically just contains the short service attestation that you refer to.

There are 5 pages:

The short service page dated 7 September 1914 where he is 29 years & 100 days and is a fireman. Born St Pancras, Dublin

The statement of service which shows he served 12/09/1914 to 16/12/1914

Military History sheet which shows the same service dates - it's at the bottom of this page where his marriage details are.

Description on enlistment which shows height, weight, colouring, religion etc.

Request for discharge documents dated 23 June 1920.

If this is more info than you have in your own records, and if you don't have access to Ancestry, then Ancestry US is giving free access to military records until 27 May. Although it's the US version of the site you can view UK records on there. You'd have to set up a free account to view the records.

There is also a medal roll card for him.

Where did you find the 1903 record?

Dave....I cannot help on the source of the Pension Record MC should be able to clarify..but I guess its from one off the many sources she has access to.
I havent found the AEB you refer to living in the Curragh Camp 1911 but have found an Albert Edward Beakhurst French Polisher aged 26 b London. Single. working on the Curragh Military Camp House No 178.
This may be the man your after and would account for his enlisting in Dublin 1914.
I agree about the 1939 Marriage being that of a son rather than a remarriage although its not beyongd the realms of possibility...!!
You will have no bother getting other MCs for early years...
Yes a fireman I take to be looking after a boiler...!!! Made the mistake years ago with a family member..thought we had come up in the world...a Fireman no less...turned out he worked in the yards on the boilers...!!

Just to clarify: I now have cert for the 1939 marriage. It gives father and son having same name but no exact ages. However as husband is of full age and wife a minor, it would be weird if it was a remarriage of a 55 year old, and I would also have to find another Albert Edward!
Thanks to all who have contributed to this-
Dave

I have found 2 service records:
one relating to 1903 - discharged medically unfit after about 100 days;
One relating to 1914 - married, discharged medically unfit after about 100 days for deafness;
One census record in the Curragh, living in "c England soldiers house";
I haven't seen in any of these name or marriage date of a wife.
I wonder if you can clarify: What was the source of the pension record you cite?
The first army record connects the subject firmly to England as he gives 3 next of kin.
I am nearly convinced that all 3 are the same man, despite the age in 1914 being slightly off by a few months and there being change of occupation. Btw I am assuming that a fireman looks after a boiler rather than putting fires out. That fits with a man taking what work he can get.
I don't know if the Irish GRO can produce a marriage cert for pre- independence period; I certainly hope so, but I know a lot of records burned in the rising in 1916.
They have certainly been prompt and efficient ( if a little dear) for a later marriage in 1939 for what may be this mans son. Father and son have the same name, but father is a painter now.
Thanks for pointers given already, this has potential to join up a branch previously left disconnected.
Btw are you connected to this family?

Dave

Possible remarriage....????

Name: Albert Edvard Beakhurst
Event Type: Marriage
Event Date: Oct - Dec 1939
Event Place: Dublin South, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year: Oct - Dec 1939
Registration District: Dublin South
Volume Number: 2
Page Number: 469
GS Film number: 101578
Digital Folder Number: 004199370
Image Number: 00222

Albert Beakhurst, "Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes, 1845-1958"Name: Albert Beakhurst
Event Type: Death
Event Date: Oct - Dec 1952
Event Place: Dublin South, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year: Oct - Dec 1952
Registration District: Dublin South
Age: 68
Birth Year (Estimated): 1884
Volume Number: 2
Page Number: 267
GS Film number: 257854
Digital Folder Number: 004202551
Image Number: 00347

Is this related....

Name: Ellen M Beakhurst
Event Type: Birth
Event Date: Oct - Dec 1928
Event Place: Dublin South, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year: Oct - Dec 1928
Registration District: Dublin South
Mother's Maiden Name: Orr
Volume Number: 2
Page Number: 505
GS Film number: 101230
Digital Folder Number: 004195645
Image Number: 00562

This may be Ellen Orr 1911...only Orr family with an Ellen and Sarah........

Residents of a house 14 in Peter St. (Mansion House, Dublin)

Orr Thomas 51 Male Head of Family Irish Church Co Cavan Cartaker of Bulding's Read and write - Married - - - -
Orr Ellen 49 Female Wife Irish Church Dublin City - Read and write - Married Deaf 32 9 5
Orr Ellen 19 Female Daughter Irish Church Dublin City Corset Maker Read and write - Single - - - -
Orr Sarah 17 Female Daughter Irish Church single

Aha! Progress. This line is one I had only just started on, and I now realise i already have Eva (nee Turton) on my radar. At least the census managed to capture the existence of this particular Albert.
I will see if it is possible to buy a marriage certificate, as even at €21 including post, it is worth it to link up two branches.
Thanks for all for unbelievably quick and helpful responses.
- Dave.

The attestation gives him as a fireman and states he's never been in the armed forces previously.

I'll post this 1901 for consideration:

BEAKHURST, Eoa Head Widow F 54 1847 Mothly Nurse Stockbridge, Hampshire
BEAKHURST, Albert Son Single M 16 1885 Piano Makers Porter Pancras, London
BEAKHURST, Maud Daughter Single F 13 1888 Printers Asst Pancras, London
BEAKHURST, Hanna Daughter Single F 10 1891 Pancras, London

Piece: 131 Folio: 33 Page: 58
Registration District: St Pancras
Civil Parish: St Pancras

Address: 66, Robert Street, St Pancras County: London

Isn't it just typical that there's a man's name missed off this record

Ireland, Civil Registration Marriages Index, 1845-1958
Name: Ellen Orr
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1914
Registration District: Dublin
Volume: 2
Page Number: 621
FHL Film Number: 101262

Records on Page:
Name
George Glass
Agnes Black
Ellen Orr

According to Albert Edward Beakhurst's service pension records he married Ellen Orr on 11 May 1914 in Dublin. Witnesses were HB Corcoran and Sarah Orr.

If his marriage certificate gives his father's details that might help work out his true birthplace.

I am late joining this thread, but I also have encountered references to "St Pancras Co Dublin" or "St Pancras near Dublin" or "St Pancras Dublin" as Dublin is written between "near the town of" and "in the County of" fields on the form.
I think it is an error created by the recruiting officer.
In my case, it concerns A Short Service Attestation of Albert Edvard (sic) Beakhurst, Middlesex Corps on 7 Sept 1914, when his age is given as 29 years 100days, so his birth date would be 1885-May-30 (+-).
The recruitment was done in Dublin, and it is easy to assume that the parish is local, rather than over the sea.
In 1911 Irish Census, a man of the same name and corresponding age is living in a "C England Soldiers House" at The Curragh in Co Kildare. He is described as having been born in England and is 26 years old on Census day.
That they could be the same man is at least likely.
The absence of a civil birth registration for him in England (or Ireland) is a bit of a snag, so we have to keep an open mind.
In short, in September 1914, the recruiting offices would be awash with recruits and matching paperwork. I suspect that attention to exact truth was not a priority, witness the number of underage recruits happily accepted at the time.
I am left with the task of finding where and when "Albert Ed[vw]ard Beakhurst" was in fact born. There was at the relevant time a fairly large family of Beakhu(r)st at St Pancras in London.

Hi Jax,

I have sent you a pm.

I will send off for this Birth Cert.

Thanks Jax,

Regards, GinaS

I have ancestry premium but I could not find him at all I just thought they listed ww1 records?

I got mine from FMP

I have sent you a pm Gina

jax

I have given you his birth above

Births Jun 1871 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fish Charles John Whitechapel 1c 310

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Hi Jax,

Sorry for the delay - I have been trying to find this Charles John Fish's birth since 7.45am - my head about to burst!!!!

I cannot find him on the British army service records 1760 - 1913 on my Ancestry.co.uk - I would like to make copies of these records.

The Charles John Fish who married Bridget Baird is the right one. His first wife Bridget died in 1906 and then he married Mary Byrne in 1908.

On his marriage certificates his father is down as William Fish (deceased).

Jaz and Teresa Thank-you

perhaps Bridget's death

Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes, 1845-1958 for Bridget Fish
Name: Bridget Fish
Registration District: Dublin North
Event Type: DEATHS
Registration Quarter and Year: Apr - Jun 1906
Estimated Birth Year: 1874
Age (at Death): 32
Film Number: 0101603
Volume Number: 2
Page Number: 387
Digital Folder Number: 4201707

and remarriage

Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes, 1845-1958 for Charles John Fish
Name: Charles John Fish
Registration District: Dublin North
Event Type: MARRIAGES
Registration Quarter and Year: Oct - Dec 1908
Film Number: 101261
Volume Number: 2
Page Number: 539
Digital Folder Number: 4199363
Image Number: 00416
Image Number: 00084

possible spouse

Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes, 1845-1958 for Mary Anne Byrne
Name: Mary Anne Byrne
Registration District: Dublin North
Event Type: MARRIAGES
Registration Quarter and Year: Oct - Dec 1908
Estimated Birth Year:
Age (at Death):
Mother's Maiden Name:
Film Number: 101261
Volume Number: 2
Page Number: 539
Digital Folder Number: 4199363
Image Number: 00409

From 1901 Irish Census

Residents of a house 15.6 in Blackhall Street (Arran Quay, Dublin)
Surname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion Birthplace Occupation Literacy Irish Language Marital Status Specified Illnesses
Cullen Elizabeth 24 Female Boarder Catholic Co Wicklow Tailoress Read and write - Not Married -
Fish Mary Ann 5 Female Daughter Catholic Dublin City Scholar Cannot read - Not Married -
Fish Norah 3 Female Daughter Catholic Dublin City Scholar Cannot read - Not Married -
Fish Bridget 27 Female Head of Family Catholic Dublin City Tailoress Read and write - Married -
Baird Mary 36 Female Sister Catholic Dublin City - Cannot read - Not Married -
Fish William Male Son Catholic Dublin City - Cannot read - Not Married -



From 1911 Irish Census

Residents of a house 34.2 in Arran Quay (Arran Quay, Dublin)
Surname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion Birthplace Occupation Literacy Irish Language Marital Status Specified Illnesses Years Married Children Born Children Living
Fish Charles 37 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic London City Carter Read and write - Married - 3 - -
Fish Mary Ann 34 Female Wife Roman Catholic Co Dublin - Read and write - Married - 3 2 5
Fish Mary Ann 15 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Dublin Apprentice Cool Trade Read and write - Single - - - -
Fish Norah 13 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Dublin Scholar Read and write - Single - - - -
Fish William 10 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Dublin Scholar Read and write - Single - - - -
Fish Eileen 2 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Dublin - Cannot read - - - - - -
Fish Albert Male Son Roman Catholic Co Dublin - Cannot read - - - - - -


could he have remarried?


Teresa