Genealogy Chat

Has anybody, doing an Irish tree heard of a Registration District called:

St. Pancras, Dublin.

(It is written on some British Army Records around the end of the 19th Century.

I jave asked in the GRO Office in Dublin and the lady said there was no such place.

Only St Pancras I have heard of is in London

jax

This link gives detials of the towns and Reg Dists in Dublin County, but there is nothing that looks a possible match

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=684ro0h83e52dt9cpsvkhnfha7&topic=380284.0

I can see neither a Roman Catholic parish of that name - http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/browse/counties/rcmaps/dublinrc.htm - nor Church of Ireland - http://www.dublindiocese.ie/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=27 - this, hopefully, lists all parishes in Dublin - http://www.dublinheritage.ie/parish_records/index.html

Here are the civil parishes - http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/fuses/civilparish/index.cfm?fuseaction=GetMap&CityCounty=Dublin

I have looked through the lists of parishes in Ireland also the Variants list of parishes which differ from those shown on the maps
But I can't find St Pancras

Bren

My gran always used to say she came from Dundee in Ireland, she obviously did'nt know where it was and she actually came from London anyway.

Could this just be a mistake? Is this person definatley from Ireland do you know?

jax

Edit - before anyone says anything yes I know Dundee is in Scotland...but my gran did'nt :-)

HI K, Joy, & Bren

No sign of a St. Pancras in Dublin on those sites.

Jax, I only know the St. Pancras Station in London.

The Man I am trying research is a Charles John Fish b.1874 - now there is only one on Ancestry and he was born in Lincolnshire. It is just that he put on his enlisting form where born: St. Pancras Dublin.

He did marry an Irish Girl and settled in Dublin, I just want to make sure I have the right Charles John Fish. There is nothing on the Irish pages on Family search, only from his marriage onwards.

Many thanks to you all for the trouble taken, really appreciated.

Regards, GinaS

PS. Apologies for the delay in expressing Thanks

British Army Service Records 1760-1913
First name(s): Charles John

Last name: FISH

Calculated year of birth: 1873

Parish of birth: Spitalfields

Town of birth: London

County of birth: Middlesex

Age at attestation: 18 years 10 months

Attestation date: 16 June 1891

Attestation corps: Army Service Corps

Attestation soldier number: 10057

Discharge rank:

Discharge corps:

Discharge soldier number:

The National Archives reference: WO97 / 4834 / 70

There are 4 images available for this soldier


He married Bridget Baird from Dublin

Children Mary ann 1895, Norah Josephine 1897 and William Joseph 1900

Is this the man?


St Paul Dublin could that be the place also?

1881

Name: Charles T. Fish
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872
Relation: Son
Father's name: William Fish
Mother's name: Mary A. Fish
Gender: Male
Where born: Spitalfields

Civil parish: Bethnal Green
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 35 Scott Street
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Bethnal Green
Sub-registration district: Bethnal Church
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 425
Folio: 21
Page Number: 35
Household Members: Name Age
William Fish 36
Mary A. Fish 39
Elizabeth Fish 14
William Fish 17
Mary A. Fish 12
Charles T. Fish 9 >>>>Looks like J on the image
Alice J. Fish 7
Joseph H. Fish 5
Sarah E. Fish 3
John R. Fish 1


Army papers say his mother was Mary Ann Fish and an address in Bethnal Green 16 Reuben St

Looks like his birth

Births Jun 1871 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fish Charles John Whitechapel 1c 310

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just before he went into the army

1891 census - household transcription
Person: FISH, Mary Anna
Address: 16, Reuben Street, Bethnal Green


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FISH, Mary Anna Head Widow F 49 1842
Wisbech
Cambridgeshire VIEW
FISH, William Son Single M 27 1864 Shoe Salesman
Wisbech
Cambridgeshire VIEW
FISH, Mary A Daughter Single F 22 1869
Spitalfields
London VIEW
FISH, Charles Son Single M 20 1871 Carman
Spitalfields
London VIEW
FISH, Albert Son Single M 9 1882 Scholar
Bethnal Green
London VIEW
FISH, John R Son Single M 11 1880 Scholar
Bethnal Green
London VIEW
FISH, Joseph Son Single M 15 1876 Labourer
Bethnal Green
London VIEW
FISH, Sarah Daughter Single F 13 1878 Scholar
Bethnal Green
London VIEW
JONES, James Lodger Single M 29 1862 Skin Dyer
Stepney
London VIEW
KING, James Lodger Single M 28 1863 Labourer
West Ham
London VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


He took a year off his age when he enlisted for some reason.....or maybe he did'nt know his year of birth?

From 1901 Irish Census

Residents of a house 15.6 in Blackhall Street (Arran Quay, Dublin)
Surname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion Birthplace Occupation Literacy Irish Language Marital Status Specified Illnesses
Cullen Elizabeth 24 Female Boarder Catholic Co Wicklow Tailoress Read and write - Not Married -
Fish Mary Ann 5 Female Daughter Catholic Dublin City Scholar Cannot read - Not Married -
Fish Norah 3 Female Daughter Catholic Dublin City Scholar Cannot read - Not Married -
Fish Bridget 27 Female Head of Family Catholic Dublin City Tailoress Read and write - Married -
Baird Mary 36 Female Sister Catholic Dublin City - Cannot read - Not Married -
Fish William Male Son Catholic Dublin City - Cannot read - Not Married -



From 1911 Irish Census

Residents of a house 34.2 in Arran Quay (Arran Quay, Dublin)
Surname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion Birthplace Occupation Literacy Irish Language Marital Status Specified Illnesses Years Married Children Born Children Living
Fish Charles 37 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic London City Carter Read and write - Married - 3 - -
Fish Mary Ann 34 Female Wife Roman Catholic Co Dublin - Read and write - Married - 3 2 5
Fish Mary Ann 15 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Dublin Apprentice Cool Trade Read and write - Single - - - -
Fish Norah 13 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Dublin Scholar Read and write - Single - - - -
Fish William 10 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Dublin Scholar Read and write - Single - - - -
Fish Eileen 2 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Dublin - Cannot read - - - - - -
Fish Albert Male Son Roman Catholic Co Dublin - Cannot read - - - - - -


could he have remarried?


Teresa

perhaps Bridget's death

Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes, 1845-1958 for Bridget Fish
Name: Bridget Fish
Registration District: Dublin North
Event Type: DEATHS
Registration Quarter and Year: Apr - Jun 1906
Estimated Birth Year: 1874
Age (at Death): 32
Film Number: 0101603
Volume Number: 2
Page Number: 387
Digital Folder Number: 4201707

and remarriage

Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes, 1845-1958 for Charles John Fish
Name: Charles John Fish
Registration District: Dublin North
Event Type: MARRIAGES
Registration Quarter and Year: Oct - Dec 1908
Film Number: 101261
Volume Number: 2
Page Number: 539
Digital Folder Number: 4199363
Image Number: 00416
Image Number: 00084

possible spouse

Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes, 1845-1958 for Mary Anne Byrne
Name: Mary Anne Byrne
Registration District: Dublin North
Event Type: MARRIAGES
Registration Quarter and Year: Oct - Dec 1908
Estimated Birth Year:
Age (at Death):
Mother's Maiden Name:
Film Number: 101261
Volume Number: 2
Page Number: 539
Digital Folder Number: 4199363
Image Number: 00409

Hi Jax,

Sorry for the delay - I have been trying to find this Charles John Fish's birth since 7.45am - my head about to burst!!!!

I cannot find him on the British army service records 1760 - 1913 on my Ancestry.co.uk - I would like to make copies of these records.

The Charles John Fish who married Bridget Baird is the right one. His first wife Bridget died in 1906 and then he married Mary Byrne in 1908.

On his marriage certificates his father is down as William Fish (deceased).

Jaz and Teresa Thank-you

I have given you his birth above

Births Jun 1871 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fish Charles John Whitechapel 1c 310

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have ancestry premium but I could not find him at all I just thought they listed ww1 records?

I got mine from FMP

I have sent you a pm Gina

jax

Hi Jax,

I have sent you a pm.

I will send off for this Birth Cert.

Thanks Jax,

Regards, GinaS

I am late joining this thread, but I also have encountered references to "St Pancras Co Dublin" or "St Pancras near Dublin" or "St Pancras Dublin" as Dublin is written between "near the town of" and "in the County of" fields on the form.
I think it is an error created by the recruiting officer.
In my case, it concerns A Short Service Attestation of Albert Edvard (sic) Beakhurst, Middlesex Corps on 7 Sept 1914, when his age is given as 29 years 100days, so his birth date would be 1885-May-30 (+-).
The recruitment was done in Dublin, and it is easy to assume that the parish is local, rather than over the sea.
In 1911 Irish Census, a man of the same name and corresponding age is living in a "C England Soldiers House" at The Curragh in Co Kildare. He is described as having been born in England and is 26 years old on Census day.
That they could be the same man is at least likely.
The absence of a civil birth registration for him in England (or Ireland) is a bit of a snag, so we have to keep an open mind.
In short, in September 1914, the recruiting offices would be awash with recruits and matching paperwork. I suspect that attention to exact truth was not a priority, witness the number of underage recruits happily accepted at the time.
I am left with the task of finding where and when "Albert Ed[vw]ard Beakhurst" was in fact born. There was at the relevant time a fairly large family of Beakhu(r)st at St Pancras in London.

According to Albert Edward Beakhurst's service pension records he married Ellen Orr on 11 May 1914 in Dublin. Witnesses were HB Corcoran and Sarah Orr.

If his marriage certificate gives his father's details that might help work out his true birthplace.

Isn't it just typical that there's a man's name missed off this record

Ireland, Civil Registration Marriages Index, 1845-1958
Name: Ellen Orr
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1914
Registration District: Dublin
Volume: 2
Page Number: 621
FHL Film Number: 101262

Records on Page:
Name
George Glass
Agnes Black
Ellen Orr

The attestation gives him as a fireman and states he's never been in the armed forces previously.

I'll post this 1901 for consideration:

BEAKHURST, Eoa Head Widow F 54 1847 Mothly Nurse Stockbridge, Hampshire
BEAKHURST, Albert Son Single M 16 1885 Piano Makers Porter Pancras, London
BEAKHURST, Maud Daughter Single F 13 1888 Printers Asst Pancras, London
BEAKHURST, Hanna Daughter Single F 10 1891 Pancras, London

Piece: 131 Folio: 33 Page: 58
Registration District: St Pancras
Civil Parish: St Pancras

Address: 66, Robert Street, St Pancras County: London