Genealogy Chat

A person can only be born once and a child is registered on the Live Birth Register in their original birth name. A child cannot be re-registered on this Register after adoption.

After an adoption is granted in the court the child is placed on The Adopted Children Register the INDEX of this Register can be found in some main libraries in England and Wales.

An adopted child is issued with new 'birth' certificate. The short cert looks like a regular birth cert, however, the FULL cert gives adoption information, court name and date and adoptive parents names and occupation. Older adoption certificates give Country of Birth.

Elizabeth maybe your mother was officially adopted as an older child when the law came in in 1927 (a person could be adopted right up to the age of 21 in those days) If this was so then she would be listed in The Adopted Children Register. You can view the INDEX to the ACR at Birmingham Central Library.

Just to add that a close relative of mine changed her name and was able to gain a passport in her 'Known as name' this was in the early 1980's. It's not illegal to change your name so long as it's not done for unlawful purposes.

Hope this helps :-)

Cheers Gerry

Thanks Cheryl

I will try the register office in Birmingham and also the Worcester History Centre now that I have, as you say, people agreeing that she was possibly/probably adopted.

It would be great to find out the truth. So far I havent found any hot matches/trees with even a sniff of that side of the family. Ive also put it on Lost Cousins, but nothing from there either. (But then, if shes adopted, its unlikely that anyting useful would turn up for her blood mother as the last info you can submit is 1911, before my grandparents were married)

Good luck with your research too

Hi Ozi

Yes, that is what I would have thought, but if she knew she was adopted, she never told us. This only became a thought over the last couple of weeks, so its pretty new to me, and quite a suprise!

It was because we never knew any of her family to my knowledge, (if we met any of them it was when I was very young) that I embarked on researching the family after she died. (too late for questions!)

As I knew dates of birth, marriage etc, I didnt even bother to look up a reference in the birth records and just carried on from there. (Very remiss I know now, but I'd never done anything like it before)

I have sucessfully found all of my Grandmothers siblings, parents and Grandparents on her mothers side, but hit a brick wall on her fathers side.

Whatever the outcome, I havent wasted time and effort as this was the family she knew and called her own, but I am determined that I will find out the truth if its possible.

Liz

Good luck. Persistance usually wins out in the end, and information comes from many and strange sources.

Ozi

I don't think a birth certificate would've been needed to obtain a passport that far back. A national ID card would have probably surficed.

I can ask someone at work tonight if they can help with the passport questions.
I don't deal with these more complex appns and can only go on what I have overheard over the years.
I know children could hold their own passport back then, but not sure what sort of info was req'd.
It is more difficult now though and changes in name need legal docs and in some cases proof that you use that new name for all purposes.

The adopted children register sounds like the next step - if she is on it of course.

Happy hunting

Cheryl

Thank you Cheryl and Geraldine.

Its certainly all information I can act upon and maybe, just maybe, I shall be able to find out what happened.

Thanks Janet, yes I wondered if less info was needed just after the war. I know that neither of my parents ever had to take a driving test as they were both eligible to drive during the war, so maybe things were a bit more lax in those days.

Off now to do another lunch hours digging!

Liz

Elizabeth... Just a thought.

It may be a good idea to visit or email the local registry office where you believe your mum was born and registered at. Just on the off chance that her birth reg didn't make it to GRO in the 3 monthly batches.

I have read that on occasion some have slipped through the net.

Cheers Gerry

Thats a good thought Gerry, thank you. I will try and find out where the local office is and do that as a first step I think. You never now!

Thanks again
Liz

Hello again to all who've helped me with this one

As Gerry suggested I contacted the local registry office to see if she had escaped the GRO and have had an answer back. It seems that there is no registered birth for Mum for sure and he gave me the option of paying £25 for him to do a search for any Jean Elisabeth (no surname) who was born on the same day as Mum.

I cant see that this will really help as

a) unless she was officially adopted later on after 1927 there would be no proof that it was the same child and

b) She may have been registered by her birth mother under an entirely different name (I seem to remember her telling me a very long time ago, how her Mum insisted that her name was spelt with an s rather than a z so it couldnt be shortened to Liz, seems like a Mothers choice of name!)

Anyway, I think I will go to Birmingham soon and check out the Adoption Indexes and see if that throws anything up. Apparently, Birmingham Library, where the History Centre/records are, is moving soon and from what I can gather, they are closing all or part of the history centre in July for about 2 years.

Thank you to all who have helped me
Liz

Hello again everyone

Update!

I have just returned from viewing the Index to the Adopted Childrens Register at Birmingham Central Library. Sadly, it doesnt look as if Mum was ever formally adopted so I shall have to resign myself to never being to trace 1/2 of my blood line. Just a little frustrating, but it doesnt matter in the big scheme of things.

Thank you all, for the help you have given me, and happy researching :-)
Kind regards
Liz

Liz
Do you have an old passport belonging to your mother?
Where does she give as place of birth?

Is this what was also entered as birthplace on her death certificate?
Just maybe she was born away from the area you expect and still was the natural child of your grandparents.
Some of my distant relatives had children many miles away from their 'home' area, eg. travelled to their birth village so that extended family could help care for mother and child.
Have you viewed the baptism entry?
This was fairly soon after your mother's birth, which means that any 'adoption' was soon arranged or indeed that your grandparents knew her birth mother, if Jean was not their child.

Gwyn

About the Jean E Scott births on page 1 of the thread -- you have to look at the images to see what they mean.

Name: Jean E Scott
Mother's Maiden Surname: Scott
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1923
Registration district: Marylebone
Inferred County: London
Volume Number: 1a
Page Number: 721

Name: Jean E Scott
Mother's Maiden Surname: Scott
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1923
Registration district: Marylebone
Inferred County: London
Volume Number: 1a
Page Number: ?? M24

-- Ancestry has mistranscribed that -- it's a handwritten addition at the bottom of the page and it says "1a See June 1924" meaning that the birth occurred during Q3 1923, but was registered (or reregistered) in Q1 1924.

This is the registration it refers to:

Name: Jean E Scott
Mother's Maiden Surname: Scott
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1924
Registration district: Marylebone
Inferred County: London
Volume Number: 1a
Page Number: 752

FreeBMD, on the other hand, has mistranscribed the 1924 as 1926. If you click on "Info" beside the entry at FreeBMD, it says this:

"This entry appears to be a late entry however the entry referred to cannot be found, either because it is not identical to this entry or because it has not yet been transcribed."

which is because it isn't 1926, it's 1924.

Births Sep 1923
Scott Jean E Scott Marylebone 1a see June 1926 >> should say 1924
Scott Jean E Scott Marylebone 1a 721
Births Jun 1924
Scott Jean E Scott Marylebone 1a 752


Usually a reregistration takes place when a father's surname is added to the entry. In this case, the late registration seems identical to original registration.

There's no particular reason to think this is your Jean Elsie, I thought it might just help to know what it all meant. ;-)

You could always order that certificate to see what the middle name is, and whether that person can be traced independently.


Oh, aha, the other thing to do is click on the page number to see other names on the list. I did it for 1923 but not 1924.

Births Jun 1924
Nevitt Jean E Scott Marylebone 1a 752
Scott Jean E Scott Marylebone 1a 752

So yes, that birth was reregistered in the father's surname. Here's that record, per Ancestry, St Marglebone, sigh:

Name: Joan E Nevitt
Mother's Maiden Surname: Scott
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1923
Registration district: St.Marglebone
Inferred County: London
Volume Number: 1a
Page Number: J'24

A handwritten entry saying Jean E Nevitt with the same details is above that and crossed out. Poor woman!


There's a Ms Scott + Mr Nevitt marriage in 1924 in Chelsea which seems unlikely to be the one, but that's the first Nevitt-Scott birth, with 3 more later in other locations.


Edit - there's only one likely marriage for the name Jean E Nevitt, in Reading 1943, and this death would seem to match the marriage:

Name: Jean Elizabeth Hislop
Birth Date: 8 Jan 1922
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1974
Age at Death: 52
Registration district: Sunderland
Inferred County: Durham
Volume: 1a
Page: 2423

Not a good match on the birthdate ... but that might not be surprising ...

HI JaneyCanuk and Gwyn in Kent.

Thanks for your comments, sorry I didn't acknowledge earlier, but my internet connection is really playing up at the moment, so haven't been doing much tree work!

Gwyn, I do have an old passport in my 'family trunk' I will have to get it out and check, but I'm pretty sure its Birmingham (and as I registered her death, I'm hoping its correct!) No I havent actually viewed the baptism entry, maybe that can be another day out for me :-)

Janey, I did have a look at the Jean E Scott entries, and I think I see what you mean (Im easily confused!)
There is however a Jean E Williams (mmn Williams) born in the same quarter in their home area. I think I might splash out on the birth cert of that one as I think its more likely that she was born 'close to home'. None of the Brooks/Wells families seemed to move around very much at all.

I will update if I find anything relevant.
In the meantime, happy research
Liz

EDIT n oops, just read last posting and you have this!!

Not really helpful - there are a few Jean E's born around Birmingham - but just putting this as an outside chance this child was illegitimate. A common surname unfortunately!

Births Sep 1923
Williams Jean E Williams King's N. 6d 93

If you are not local let me know, I am happy to check out B'ham archives at some point.

Jan

Which district is Stockland Green in? Aston?

Rose

It's Erdington Rose, but not far from Aston..
Jan

Hi everyone

I am soooo excited!! I am almost certain that I have found her!

I have only just got your posts Jan and Rose. My internet connection was finally fixed the day we went on holiday but I had decided to take a flyer and order the certificate that I had been humming and harring about so sent for it almost as I ran out of the door to catch the plane!

I got back very early this morning and found it waiting, but left it till this morning to open.

Jean Elisabeth Williams born to Jean Williams a sick nurse (Im assuming that isnt her state of health but occupation!) No father named. DOB 23rd August 1923

Does everyone agree that its at least a 99% chance that its her?
Liz :-D

The same birth date? Same uncommon combination of names with that spelling of Elisabeth? 100% I would say! Had a gut feeling about the Kings Norton one so really chuffed about that.
Absolutely fantastic news Liz - who would have thought it possible! You must be thrilled to bits.
Hope you have an address, might be worth checking out on electoral register.
Jan

Reading this with a smile on my face......WELL DONE everyone!!! :-D

Mary

Have you thought about going to the registry office where the previous children were registered and check to see if they have Mum listed. It could be she got missed off the BMD register. I have a few p[eople in my family that this has happened to. Why don't you give the registry office a call and see if they can help.