Genealogy Chat

Hi.
William Herring (born c1824) and Eleanor Gray (born c1826) got married on 25 June 1846 in Bishopwearmouth, Sunderland. Acc. to the marriage certificate were their fathers names John Herring and James Gray. Big problems to find these families in Sunderland. Have studied several Census households but I am very hesitating. James Gray was a very common name in this area. One alternative to a father could be a sailor who was missing on the Census report. How can I find him? Thanks in advance for comments.
Kind regards
Arnold Mellgren, Sweden

Do you have the fathers' occupations from the cert? And witnesses too please?
Jan

Guess you have considered this one? James is a mariner.

1841 England Census

Name: Ellenor Gray
Age: 15
Estimated birth year: abt 1826
Gender: Female
Where born: Durham, England

Civil parish: Sunderland
Hundred: Sunderland Town
County/Island: Durham

Registration district: Sunderland
Sub-registration district: West Sunderland

James Gray 45
James Gray 13
Ann Gray 45
Ellenor Gray 15

Jan

1851 England Census
Name: William Herring
Age: 29
Estimated birth year: abt 1822
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Ellen
Gender: Male
Where born: Sunderland, Durham, England
Civil parish: Sunderland
Town: Sunderland
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street Address: 28 Covent Garden Street

Occupation: Mariner

Registration district: Sunderland
Sub-registration district: West Sunderland
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 231
Household Members:
Name Age
William Herring 29
Ellen Herring 24
Ann Herring 2
James Gray 56 - visitor; widow; Rigger
James Gray 23 - visitor's son; unmarried; Mariner

The Grays fit with the 1841 census in Jan's post. All born Sunderland.

In 1841 there are only 2 William Herrings living in Sunderland for that age range.

William Herring abt 1821 Durham, England Bishop Wearmouth, Durham - head is Lancelot [I think], a publican while William is recorded as a merchant.
Wm Herring abt 1821 Durham, England Monkwearmouth, Durham - large family with William Herring snr as head. He is a shipowner; William jnr is an engineer.

Hi Jan

Thank you for answering

He was a sailor and witnessis were (very difficult to read)
Henry Rutter (Rutten?) and Mary Ann Eb.....??
Furthermore, I have seen the data from census 1841 which you have written.
Both families had a daughter named Eleanor 15. One father named James and the other was absent.

How can I find this sailor? Looking for information about him.

Kind regards
Arnold

Hi Elizabeth

Many thanks for your message regarding William and Eleanor

I have also seen the info from Census 1891, but the main problem is still to identify their parent's families.

The year of birth for William is varying between 1821 and 1824 in the Census reports, which makes me somewhat confused.

Kind regards
Arnold

Hello again Ozi

I am really sorry for my dizzy messages to you earlier to-day.

Thank you for your help!

The figures from Census 1851 (via Findmypast) regarding the family Herring is confusing. The year of birth for William is 1813. 1827 for Eleanor. Age 38 (??)for William and 24 for Eleanor.
According to your message William is 29 years old, which probably is correct. Which source do you have used to get the Census info?

Any comments Ozi?
Best regards Arnold

Too early?..

GI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
British Isles
Search Results | Download | Print

William Herring Pedigree
Male

Event(s):
Birth:
17 AUG 1816
Christening:
08 SEP 1816 Sunderland, Durham, England
Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: John Herring Family
Mother: Margaret Clarke

Thank you Marion!!

Also thanks for your message from yesterday

I think it is 5 years too early. Maybe the first with the name William son died?
I have also searched in Family Search. The question is when did they got married?
Regarding your first message from yesterday:
The second alternative seems to be OK. Age 26 for Eleanor acc. to Census 1861.

Kind regards
Arnold

Arnold, there is only one 1841 census posted for Eleanor (Ellenor). She is living at Covent Garden the same as in 1851. Her father is a mariner. In 1851 the James Gray with them is a rigger which is also a seafaring occupation. Then the son, James, appears on both censuses too. I think you can be pretty sure on that one.

As for William Herring, what is his father's occupation on the marriage cert?

Ozi

Thank you again Ozi !!

OK. I think the problem with James Gray's family is solved.

William Herring's father John was also a sailor.

The name of the street is very difficult to read. 9 .....ton street.

Hope you can give me a tip.

Kindest regards
Arnold

Hi Ozi

(Repeating:)

Regarding William Herrings father John

As I said - he was a sailor acc. to the certificate but if I search for this name in Census 1841 and 1851 I can see a family living on Nile Street, Bishop Wearmouth. Census 1851 tells that he is a TAILOR with i man employ. The son William is born 1821. Maybe incorrect written.

Somewhat confusing.

regards
Arnold

Hi Ozi

(Reaping:)

Regarding William Herrings father John

As I said - he was a sailor acc. to the certificate but if I search for this name in Census 1841 and 1851 I can see a family living on Nile Street, Bishop Wearmouth. Census 1851 tells that he is a TAILOR with i man employ. The son William is born 1821. Maybe incorrect written.

Somewhat confusing.

regards
Arnold

Definitely Tailor.

1861 England Census
Name: John Herring
Age: 73
Estimated birth year: abt 1788
Relation: Father
Gender: Male
Where born: Sherburn, Durham, England
Civil parish: Bishopwearmouth
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street Address: 21 Tavistock Place

Occupation: Retired Tailor

Registration district: Sunderland
Sub-registration district: South Bishop Wearmouth
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 103
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary Muir 58 - Occ, Furnished Apartment (presumably she's the manager or landlady of ...)
James J Muir 13 - son; scholar
Mary H Muir 11 - daughter; scholar
John Herring 73
Ellenor Hogg 22 - servant

I knew I'd found him before.

1851 England Census
Name: William Herring
Age: 34
Estimated birth year: abt 1817
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Caroline
Gender: Male
Where born: Sunderland, Durham, England
Civil parish: Bishopwearmouth
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
Town: Sunderland
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street Address: 49 Nile St

Occupation: Tailor Master

Registration district: Sunderland
Sub-registration district: South Bishop Wearmouth
ED, institution, or vessel: 1i
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 184
Household Members:
Name Age
William Herring 34
Caroline Herring 26
Ralph Herring 5
John Herring 4
William Herring 4
Charles Herring 2

Indeed thank you Ozzi for the last answer

I think I have got the wrong family for William Herring from the beginning.

There must be a son born 1863 named James Stolery in the same family and maybe other siblings.

Will you spend some minutes lokking for that.

Arnold

Nothing at first glance.

I've got to go for dinner now, & as my husband cooked it, I won't keep him waiting.

Perhaps someone else can have a look for you. Otherwise I'll try later.

Ozi.

Marion!

I think you are right. William was born 1816. The parents you found were correct persons!!!! And also the baby William. Great!!

Both you and Ozi have helped me a lot!

I am very grateful

Arnold

Great when things start to come together. :))