Genealogy Chat

Corespondence with Durham Records Online:

Here is a copy of the record you recently viewed at Durham Records Online:

Burials, Sunderland District
Record Number: 550839.2
Location: Sunderland
Church: Sunderland Cemetery (Stockton Rd.)
Religion: any
8 Mar 1899 William Herring, age: 75, mariner, died at the Ryhope Asylum

I asked them then:


"Hope you can give me tip. Have search a long time for getting the birth date for this person.

No William Herring is born 1824 in Durham.

The age 75 must be OK - or can it be incorrect with 2-3 years - hardly?"

Answer:

"Age in a burial or death record can be pretty unreliable, especially when the person died in an institution. I would think his age would be within 1-2 yrs of correct if the death was reported by his wife; next I would trust his adult children to get it right within 1-3 years. A death reported by somebody at the asylum could be off by 5 years easily, especially if he appeared older or younger than he really was. Can you find him in the 1891 census for comparison?"

Confusing

Arnold

Ozi!

Cannot find Williams father and mother (the family) just now. I have search for a William Herring born in Durham 1824 +/¨- 10 years but cannot find any suitable male.

As you said - maybe Ann was Johns Widow.
Arnold

Arnold, Ann is a WIDOW. I was wondering if she was William's mother!

Ozi

Hi Ozi

Thank you again.

Yes, def. mariners. Sailors - not tailors!

Ann Herring, the daughter of William and Ellen (Eleanor) Herring, was buried 19 Oct 1858 according to Durham Records Online.

Ann Herring born abt. 1791 was maybe a sister to Williams father John.

Will investigate that, but first of all I have to find John Herrings family.

The hunt will continue.

Arnold

I think I could be on to something here. I was looking for other Herrings in the Covent Garden Street area. Covent Garden Street was off Coronation Street between Sans Street and George Street, & demolished in the slum clearances of the 1930s. There's some pictures of Coronation Street here: http://www.sunderlandhistory.co.uk/gallery/hendon

I found an Ann Herring, and William & Ellen's eldest daughter was Ann. I don't know if she's related to the Stephensons with whom she's living. Checking the IGI a Rachel Hamilton married a Smith Stephenson (ship's cook in 1861), and they had a daughter Ann that fits the 1841 census below.

1841 England Census
Name: Ann Kerring [Herring which has been scratched over]
Age: 50
Estimated birth year: abt 1791
Gender: Female
Where born: Durham, England
Civil parish: Sunderland
Hundred: Sunderland Town
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street Address: George Street

Occupation: Ind

Registration district: Sunderland
Sub-registration district: West Sunderland
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Ann Kerring 50
Ann Stevenson 12
Racheal Stevenson 3



1851 England Census
Name: Ann Herring
Age: 64
Estimated birth year: abt 1787
Gender: Female
Where born: Bishop Wearmouth, Durham, England
Civil parish: Bishopwearmouth
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
Town: Sunderland
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street Address: 119 Coronation Street

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: widow

Registration district: Sunderland
Sub-registration district: South Bishop Wearmouth
ED, institution, or vessel: 1a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 103
Household Members:
Name Age
Rachel Stephenson 43
Rachel Stephenson 13
Ann Herring 64


I would say this is her death as it's the only Ann Herring registered in Sunderland between 1851 & 1861. It should tell you of whom she was the widow.

Deaths Dec 1858
Herring Ann Sunderland 10a 252


Remember, Arnold, that I know nothing about Sunderland. I've done all this by googling & searching.

Thanks for the images.

After looking at scanned images of certs, William and his father are definitely sailors or mariners. On James Stolery's birth cert it says William is in the Merchant Service & I think one of the censuses records that as well.

Also both certs have Covent Garden St for the Herring addresses. Ellenor is living with her family in Covent Garden Street in 1841.

1846: 24 Covent Garden Street
1851: 29 Covent Garden Street
1861: 29 Covent Garden Street
1868: 29 Covent Garden Street
1871: 14 Covent Garden Street
1881: 14 Covent Garden Street
1891: 9 Trafalgar Square

My husband is a very good cook and does most of our meals, but gets a bit upset if I get caught up on the computer when the meal is ready.

Ozi

Thank you once more time Ozi

My comments to your information on the stroke of the clock:

11.47 All info OK. I have the same info

11.56 One son named James died 1855
Copy from Durham Records Online:

"Burials, Sunderland District - Record Number: 606947.2
Location: Sunderland
Church: Holy Trinity
Religion: Anglican
3 Jun 1855 James Herring, of Covent Garden Street, age: 14 months, died 31 May 1855, son of William Herring (mariner)"

I cannot find any other son born 1856 who died later.

I think we may ignore the data from census 1861 regarding James.
"My" James was born the 30 th of Aug. 1863 and died the 15th of Jan. 1938.

12.18 All figures the same as I already have

Await your comments, Ozi, after you have received the certificates.

Hope your husband was a good cook yesterday

Regards
Arnold

LOL. I'm getting confused.

1881 England Census
Name: James T. Herring [mistranscription of initial]
Age: 17
Estimated birth year: abt 1864
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Elenor
Gender: Male
Where born: Sunderland, Durham, England
Civil parish: Sunderland
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street Address: 14 Covent Garden St

Occupation: Painter

Registration district: Sunderland
Sub-registration district: West Sunderland
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Elenor Herring 58
John Herring 22
William Herring 20
James T. Herring 17
George F. Hepworth 21
Martin Gollages 30



1891 England Census
Name: Jas Stabery Herring
Age: 27
Estimated birth year: abt 1864
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Sarah Ann
Mother's Name: Mary Reah
Gender: Male
Where born: Sunderland, Durham, England
Civil parish: Bishop Wearmouth
Ecclesiastical parish: St Barnabas
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street Address: 37 Ridley Terrace

Occupation: Painter

Registration district: Sunderland
Sub-registration district: South Bishop Wearmouth
ED, institution, or vessel: 12b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Jas Stabery Herring 27
Sarah Ann Herring 25
Jacob Reah Herring 2/12
Mary Reah Herring 50 [I think the enumerator has put ditto marks for Mary's surname by mistake. She should be just Mary Reah.]
Barnard Devlin 40

Marriages Mar 1890
Carr William Jackson Sunderland 10a 704
Herring James Stolery Sunderland 10a 704
REAH Sarah Ann Sunderland 10a 704
SHERWOOD Edward Henry Sunderland 10a 704
THOMPSON Mary Hannah Sunderland 10a 704



1901 England Census
Name: James S Herring
Age: 37
Estimated birth year: abt 1864
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Sarah A
Gender: Male
Where born: Sunderland, Durham, England
Civil parish: Sunderland
Ecclesiastical parish: Hendon St Barnabas
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street Address: 37 Ridley Terrace

Occupation: House Painter

Registration district: Sunderland
Sub-registration district: South Bishopwearmouth
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 86
Household Members:
Name Age
James S Herring 37
Sarah A Herring 37
Jacob R Herring 10
Ellenor G Herring 6
John Herring 4
James G Herring 2
William Herring 11 months


1911
HERRING JAMES STOLERRY M 1864 47 Easington Durham [his occupation isn't painter]
HERRING SARAH ANN F 1866 45 Easington Durham
HERRING JACOB REAL M 1891 20 Easington Durham [In 1901 Jacob Reah Herring which makes much more sense.]
HERRING JOHN M 1897 14 Easington Durham
HERRING JAMES GREY M 1899 12 Easington Durham
HERRING WILLIAM M 1901 10 Easington Durham
HERRING ELEANOR GREY F 1901 10 Easington Durham [probably 16 not 10, but I don't have access to image. Obviously named after her paternal grandmother.]
HERRING FREDRICK M 1903 8 Easington Durham
HERRING ANDREW M 1906 5 Easington Durham

However this could be your James. Closer in age to 1861.

Births Dec 1856
Herring James Stolrey Sunderland 10a [35]86


James S c1856 is missing from 1871 census & a James c1864 is there instead. Perhaps the first James died. I can't find a death for him though.


Ozi

Is this your connection?

Births Sep 1863
HERRING James Stolery Sunderland 10a 469

Who is obviously not the James S Herring in Ellen's family in 1861 census that Marion posted.

???
Deaths Mar 1938
HERRING James S 74 Easington 10a 459

Ozi

I don't understand what's going on here?

John & William Herring/Hessing, tailors, are not your family. William Herring, tailor, is married to a Caroline & living in Nile St in 1851 whereas your William, mariner, is married to Ellen and living in Covent Garden St in 1851.

Hessing is a mistranscription on 1841. The enumerator's 'r's look like his 's's.


Ozi

Great when things start to come together. :))

Marion!

I think you are right. William was born 1816. The parents you found were correct persons!!!! And also the baby William. Great!!

Both you and Ozi have helped me a lot!

I am very grateful

Arnold

Nothing at first glance.

I've got to go for dinner now, & as my husband cooked it, I won't keep him waiting.

Perhaps someone else can have a look for you. Otherwise I'll try later.

Ozi.

Indeed thank you Ozzi for the last answer

I think I have got the wrong family for William Herring from the beginning.

There must be a son born 1863 named James Stolery in the same family and maybe other siblings.

Will you spend some minutes lokking for that.

Arnold

I knew I'd found him before.

1851 England Census
Name: William Herring
Age: 34
Estimated birth year: abt 1817
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Caroline
Gender: Male
Where born: Sunderland, Durham, England
Civil parish: Bishopwearmouth
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
Town: Sunderland
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street Address: 49 Nile St

Occupation: Tailor Master

Registration district: Sunderland
Sub-registration district: South Bishop Wearmouth
ED, institution, or vessel: 1i
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 184
Household Members:
Name Age
William Herring 34
Caroline Herring 26
Ralph Herring 5
John Herring 4
William Herring 4
Charles Herring 2

Definitely Tailor.

1861 England Census
Name: John Herring
Age: 73
Estimated birth year: abt 1788
Relation: Father
Gender: Male
Where born: Sherburn, Durham, England
Civil parish: Bishopwearmouth
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street Address: 21 Tavistock Place

Occupation: Retired Tailor

Registration district: Sunderland
Sub-registration district: South Bishop Wearmouth
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 103
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary Muir 58 - Occ, Furnished Apartment (presumably she's the manager or landlady of ...)
James J Muir 13 - son; scholar
Mary H Muir 11 - daughter; scholar
John Herring 73
Ellenor Hogg 22 - servant

Hi Ozi

(Reaping:)

Regarding William Herrings father John

As I said - he was a sailor acc. to the certificate but if I search for this name in Census 1841 and 1851 I can see a family living on Nile Street, Bishop Wearmouth. Census 1851 tells that he is a TAILOR with i man employ. The son William is born 1821. Maybe incorrect written.

Somewhat confusing.

regards
Arnold

Hi Ozi

(Repeating:)

Regarding William Herrings father John

As I said - he was a sailor acc. to the certificate but if I search for this name in Census 1841 and 1851 I can see a family living on Nile Street, Bishop Wearmouth. Census 1851 tells that he is a TAILOR with i man employ. The son William is born 1821. Maybe incorrect written.

Somewhat confusing.

regards
Arnold