Genealogy Chat

You can buy the certificate and hope the father is Frank Hall, with the correct occupation., and maybe Cicely working in the millinery business.

Otherwise you will be no wiser.

But I am not getting all this at all. At first I had it in my head that it was your mum's adoptive mum who was a midwife's assistant, but it reads that is your mum's birth mother - but then she was a millinery designer as well. What makes you say she was a midwife's assisstant?

This mass baptism in August 1926, of 4 siblings. Siblings of whom? Cicely? Was she one of them being baptised?

Your mum is baptised along with four family members and then is adopted. My half guess is that her mother went back to Romford to pursue what might have been a good possible career, and that William and May Nurse were family members who brought your mum up.

I can see you have tried curiousfox with no luck. There is also someone on there looking for a Stanley Ernest Hall living at 25 Reed Pond Walk, Romford, but the poster says on the 1919 census. I can't find him in 1911 at that address, and a search on 1911 by address doesn't pull up any such address. Seems too much of a coincidence to ignore.

We really do need that list of siblings. You at first said they were all born in Portsmouth, but then said two were born London. Which is correct?

Frank Hall married Alice Louisa Reynolds, June 1908, Portsmouth. Seems to be 3 other children to them:

Nancy G Dec 1911
Dorothy I Dec 1914
Nellie M Mar 1916

Possible Natalie F Dec 1930 might not be theirs.

But then another thing has confused me. You said another aunt was adopted. Another aunt of whom? You? Your mum?

Just to add to Madmeg's post about the 1919 Census of Romford and the poster who wrote it which Madmeg has seen.

It is the Romford Street Directory of 1919 and Stanley is indeed listed on it.

Kind regards
Amanda

Steven


it is quite possible that the family could have sent Cicely to Essex to have the baby in secret

........... they could have sent her there before the pregnancy was obvious, and then she would return home later with no one any the wiser.

She would then be able to make a "good" marriage.


That was not at all uncommon.


Many pregnant girls in the 1800s and early 1900s were taken overseas by their mothers if the family was wealthy enough .......... they sometimes returned with "Mum's" new baby which had been born overseas, or the child was adopted in the foreign country. Or they could move to somewhere else in the UK, eg to Torquay "for their health".



There used to be a home for unmarried mothers near where we presently live ................. girls were sent to it from all over the province, and had their babies in one of the local hospitals (no home births here and it was not licensed as a maternity home).

Some then kept the babies while others had them adopted.

It only closed around 2000, because the demand for its services had lessened ..... and the land was very valuable!

.............. the pregnant mums in the later years were usually very young, but I believe that in earlier years ANY unmarried mother was eligible to live htere, if there was room. It was run by the Salvation Army.


There were probably similar places in the UK.


sylvia

Hi Margaret

I haven't re-read the earlier posts

but I think what I understood at the time was that it was the adoptive Mum who was the midwife's assistant.

and I understodd that it was 4 members of the adoptive family who were baptised along with Barbara's mum


and that it was another aunt who was also adopted ........ but I didn't quite understand whether that was a sibling of Barbara's mum or a member of the adoptive family.



sylvia

Thanks Amanda for clarifying that. The interesting point is that he is a Hall. I haven't had chance to look further into who he might be.

Steven, Reed Pond Walk must have just missed the 1911 census - but no matter as we are talking a bit later anyway.

Ah, Sylvia, I am much clearer thanks. Rosalind

EDIT - why did I say Rosalind? Must be another thread I am working on. Barbara, I am sorry.

said there were 10 children in total - it is William Edwin Nurse and wife May Edith Bassett who have 10 children - 8 of their own I have found, between 1899 and 1917, plus Betty Dorothy adopted, and perhaps they adopted another child, who was regarded by Rosalind as an aunt. Yes, that fits the scene better.

So, having got that straight in my mind, we are not much further in determining what happened to Cicely, and whether or not she was the child of Frank and Alice Louisa Reynolds. And I can't see a way of proving that she was, but then - can we really prove anything in this hobby? It seems likely, born the right year, 16 when she had the baby, parents in Portsmouth.

So, Rosalind, it might be well worth getting that marriage certificate of Cicely to John C Hunter, June 1934.

Sylvia.

That makes sense. The adoptive mum working with the midwife and possibly getting fond of Cicely and feeling sorry for her so adopted her daughter

Barbara here,

Thanks everybody for all your thoughts. I know it is confusing but I think the last post probably has it correct. My Mum's adoptive parents also adopted another baby girl some years previously so I can only think that they simply loved children. I will certainly send away for that Cicely's marraige cert to see if Frank was her father and that would decide that one way or another. Also just thinking that the Isle of Wight may be a sourse of information as Frank (Cicely's dad) came from there. Again having her siblings names and DOB may be another avenue to explore.
The Reed Pond Walk address is a mystery, unless Cicely was working away from home and staying there when she got pregnant. The problem is (as Steven says) that the houses there are very exclusive ( I actually went there when I was in the UK in the summer to have a look) so cant figur e that bit out.

Barbara, apologies for calling you Rosalind.

I would get the marriage cert, as you said you would, as we have nothing else to get at the moment.

This Stanley Ernest Hall in 1919 at Reed Pond Walk is still bugging me.

Who was he? And what was he doing there?

Births Jun 1880 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HALL Stanley Ernest Croydon 2a 197

There is another Stanley Ernest born Mar 1897 in Sunderland.

Lots of plain Stanleys of course.

The Croydon Stanley Ernest in in Croydon in 1911, son of Robert age 59 born Godalming Surrey.

I am barking up the wrong hall probably.

Hi Madmeg.
That Stanley is bugging me too. such a coincidence! Uncle perhaps? Wish I had a time machine!

1881 England Census
about Frank Hall
Name: Frank Hall
Age: 2
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1879
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Louisa
Gender: Male
Where born: East Cowes, Isle of Wight, Hampshire, England

Civil parish: Whippingham
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England

Street Address: Medina Road
Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Isle Of Wight
Sub-registration district: Cowes
ED, institution, or vessel: 12a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Hall 29
Louisa Hall 30
Frank Hall 2
Martha Perkins 43

1901 England Census
about John Hall
Name: John Hall
Age: 49
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Louisa
Gender: Male
Where born: Westminster, London, England

Civil parish: East Cowes
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Isle of Wight
Sub-registration district: Cowes
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 42
Household Members: Name Age
John Hall 49
Louisa Hall 62 (age?)
Frank Hall 22
Wallis Hall 19
Herbert Groves 4 nephew b Portsmouth.

That is very interesting Madmeg. Seems to be a distinct possibility that there is a connection. What do you think yourself?

Barbara, the Frank etc in 1881 is the same family as in 1901.

Frank 1879 is born Isle of Wight, as is mum Louisa and brother Wallis. Dad John is born Westminster London. Herbert Groves is born Portsmouth.

All that flitting around - didn't make it easy for us did they?

It is tempting to give up, but I imagine you'd like to find out as much as possible about your mum's birth mother's family - so I'm carrying on!

1881 England Census
about Robert Hall
Name: Robert Hall
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Lucy Ellen
Gender: Male
Where born: Godalming, Surrey, England

Civil parish: Croydon
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street Address: Clyde Rd Garth Villa
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Tea Brokers Clerk

Registration district: Croydon
Sub-registration district: Croydon
ED, institution, or vessel: 27
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Robert Hall 29
Lucy Ellen Hall 30
Ellen B. Hall 3
Robert Hall 2
Stanley E. Hall 1
Annie Triggle 31
Annie West 17


1891 England Census
about Robert Hall
Name: Robert Hall
Age: 39
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Lucy E
Gender: Male
Where born: Godalming, Surrey, England

Civil parish: Croydon
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Magdalene
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Croydon
Sub-registration district: Croydon
ED, institution, or vessel: 33
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Robert Hall 39
Lucy E Hall 40
Ellen B Hall 13
Robt G Hall 12
Arthur R Hall 8
Caroline E Gorringe 28


1901 England Census
about Robert Hall
Name: Robert Hall
Age: 49
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Lucy E
Gender: Male
Where born: Godalming, Surrey, England

Civil parish: Croydon
Ecclesiastical parish: Emmanuel
Town: Croydon
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Croydon
Sub-registration district: Croydon
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 181
Household Members: Name Age
Robert Hall 49
Lucy E Hall 50
Ellen B Hall 23
Stanley E Hall 21
Arthur R Hall 18
Lillie Rolfe 22


1871 England Census
about Robert Hall
Name: Robert Hall
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Grandson
Gender: Male
Where born: Godalming, Surrey, England
Civil parish: Lambeth St John
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Lambeth
Sub-registration district: Brixton
ED, institution, or vessel: 17
Household schedule number: 51
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Hall 73
Rachel Hall 71
Alfred James Hall 20
Robert Hall 19
Ellen Lovegrove 23
Elizabeth Mills 15

1861 is no use, Robert is a pupil in a boarding school - posh eh?

OK, abandon Stanley Ernest for now, back to Frank Hall b 1879.

Parents' marriage

Marriages Mar 1878 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HALL John I.Wight 2b 818
Pilkington Louisa Isle Of Wight 2b 818

1861 England Census
about John Hall
Name: John Hall
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Emma
Gender: Male
Where born: Westminster

Civil parish: Whippingham
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Isle Of Wight
Sub-registration district: Cowes
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 199
Household Members: Name Age
John Hall 40
Emma Hall 37
Sarah Hall 13
Emma Hall 11
John Hall 9

All very interesting but I was wanting to find John Hall with a brother (or at least a cousin) Robert. I am beginning to think Stanley Ernest is not related, and we are getting too far back I think to find a connection, especially with the surname Hall.

However, hope the info re Frank Hall and father John is of use. And maybe the marriage cert of Cicely will tie it all in.

Madmeg you are doing amazing work! There is something I noticed in the cenus of 1871 about Robert Hall. it is probably just one of those strange coincidences but there is an Elizabeth Mills 15 years old mentioned. Elizabeth Mills was the name of the midwife who registered my Mums birth . That would have made her 55 in 1926. Also another coincidence is that my Mum's adoptive mother was born in Lambeth.

Probably nothing to it, the names unfortunately are pretty common but interesting all the same.

Yes, but I'm not getting anwhere.

Too many Elizabeth Mills in London, the one age 15 in 1871 probably married shortly afterwards. There is an Elizabeth Mills, single 32, domestic servant in 1911 for Richard Ashby, brewery director. She is born in Croydon, living in Portsmouth, also her sister Lydia age 30. But that isn't leading me anywhere.

forgot about the fact that if elizabeth mills married her name would be changed. sometimes my head gets addled with all the names and dates!
feels like all the pieces to the puzzle are there just need to fit them together. i have looked up the addressed in google earth and it is interesting to see the short distance between where cicely lived in the 1911 census (and goodness knows how long they lived there) and the street where Mum's adoptive family lived in 1926.

barbara here again.


got the marragie cert for Cicely Hall and John Hunter. No help there, her fathers name was Albert Edward and they were married in the district of West Ham.