Genealogy Chat

If you wanted to order the certificate for the William that Christina found registered in Wigan, then you could use the reference checking page on the online order form and say that you only want the certificate if the father's name is William Doctor.

To be honest, if it was me, I would be inclined to order the certificate by phone (costs £8. 50p instead of £7) and tell them that William Doctor sometimes calls himself Doctor William, because if you use a reference checking point the name has to match exactly. If he switches his name round and is not the way you give it, then they won't issue the certificate.

Kath. x

Thanks for your help Christina but how do you think i prove that William doctor was his farther . i have 2 wrong cert . Right year . green groser .dangerous corner a fue conections .

If he was 19 when he married in 1877 (Dec Q), then the most likely one would be this birth:-

Births Dec 1858 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Woodward William Wigan 8c 21

he was19 witnesses william smith ann sheenly

From Lancs BMD (1870):

WOODWARD Ignatius Westleigh Wigan & Leigh WL/18/101

Paul,

Hindley was a registration district which also covered some of the surrounding areas.

All the births for the Wigan district are now on Lancs BMD (up to abt 1920).
I did a search a couple of years either side of 1860:

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1858
WOODWARD William Wigan Wigan & Leigh WIG/54/196

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1859
WOODWARD William Hindley Wigan & Leigh HNDL/21/322

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1860
WOODWARD William Atherton Wigan & Leigh ATH/17/174

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1863
WOODWARD William Atherton Wigan & Leigh ATH/19/453
WOODWARD William Hindley Wigan & Leigh HNDL/27/386
WOODWARD William Westleigh Wigan & Leigh WL/12/368

How old was William when he married in 1877?
Do the witnesses names give any clues eg a brother or sister?

Here's Ignatius again:

1891 England Census
Civil Parish: Tyldesley With Shakerley
Ecclesiastical parish: St George
Town: Tyldesley
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 21 George St
Registration district: Leigh
Sub registration district: Atherton
ED, institution, or vessel: 11

Catherine Woodward 56 Wigan, Lancashire, England Head W
Mary Woodward 22 Dangerous Corner Arheton, Lancashire, England Daughter S Jack Frame Tenter
Ignatius Woodward 20 Dangerous Corner Arheton, Lancashire, England Son S Collier
Sylvester Woodward 17 Dangerous Corner Arheton, Lancashire, England Son S Driver in Coal Mine
Fanny Barnish 13 Atherton, Lancashire, England Boarder S Reeler

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 3091; Folio 39; Page 8; GSU roll: 6098201.


Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Jun 1891 (>99%)
Scan available - click to view
Duffy Michael Leigh 8c 343
Pennington Catherine Leigh 8c 343
Woodward Ignatius Leigh 8c 343


Marriage: 2 May 1891 Sacred Heart, Hindsford, Atherton, Lancashire, England
Ignatium Woodward - of Tyldesley
Catharinam Pennington - of St Ellens
Groom's Father: Gulielmi Woodward
Bride's Father: Joannis Pennington
Witness: Joanne Knowles, West Leigh; Maria Woodward, West Leigh
Married by: Ricardus O'Neill Miss. Apost.
Register: Marriages 1869 - 1900, Page 48


Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1891
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
WOODWARD Ignatius PENNINGTON Catherine Leigh Register Office or Registrar Attended Wigan & Leigh ROL/45/181

Note that RC priests were not authorized to conduct the civil ceremony of marriage (just the religious one), and the civil ceremony concludes with the signing of the register in the presence of the registrar in this circumstance.



1901 England Census
Civil Parish: Tyldesley With Shakerley
Ecclesiastical parish: Tyldesley with Shakerley St George
Town: Tyldesley
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: Astley Sanatorium
Registration district: Leigh
Sub registration district: Atherton
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Household schedule number: 316

Alice Taylor 42 Streatham, Surrey, England Head S Matron
...
Ignatius Woodward 30 Leigh, Lancashire, England Patient S Collier Hewer
...

Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 3597; Folio: 170; Page: 54.


1901 England Census
Civil Parish: Tyldesley With Shakerley
Ecclesiastical parish: Tyldesley with Shakerley St George
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 41 Castle St
Registration district: Leigh
Sub registration district: Atherton
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Household schedule number: 122

Catherine Woodward 30 Thath Heath, Lancashire, England Head M
Marie Woodward 5 Atherton, Lancashire, England Daughter
John E Woodward 4 Tyldesley, Lancashire, England Son
Ignatius Woodward 3 Tyldesley, Lancashire, England Son
Annie Woodward 1 Tyldesley, Lancashire, England Daughter

Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 3597; Folio: 44; Page: 22.

Ignatius Jnr's baptism is interesting:

Baptism: 2 Sep 1897 Sacred Heart, Hindsford, Atherton, Lancashire, England
Ignatius Woodward - Son of Ignatii Woodward & Catharinae (formerly Pilkington)
Born: 24 Aug 1897
God Parents: Elizabetha Caunce;
Notes: [There is a note in Latin to the effect that Ignatius Woodward married Alice
Lamb on 23 Aug 1915 at St Patrick, Bradford][In earlier baptisms, the mother's
maiden name is Pennington]
Baptised by: Richardo J. O'Neill Miss. Apost.
Register: Baptisms 1882-1900, Page 292
Source: Microfilm of register at Wigan History Shop

Sylvia, that happens to be true for Richard, as there's a gap 1819-1824 in the transcriptions at:
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Leigh/stmary/indexp.html
However, 8 of the 11 children are outside the gap, and there are online transcriptions for their baptismal entries. I also never checked the IGI for submitted entries.

If you click on anyone of the names shown in the list above by mgnv, this is what you will see on www.familysearch.org

I believe that this is all you can see on the internet.


IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
British Isles
Search Results | Download


RICHARD WOODWARD Pedigree
Male

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: JUL 1821 Leigh, Lancashire, England

Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: WILLIAM WOODWARD Family
Mother: LYDIA

---
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

---
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

C005394 1813 - 1825 0559186 Film 6903342 Film Sheet: 00




sylvia

If you enter the coords 365000, 403000 at:
http://www.old-maps.co.uk/
you'll go straight to Dangerous Corner on an 1849 map. Wigan Rd runs E-W. Looks like its a good 40 min walk to the Bird ith Hand in Hindley, and it's another 4km to Wigan.
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/80108

There's also an old area map at:
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Leigh/topmap1l.html

Following on from Kath B's post, the IGI has a number of possible sibs of William Doctor:


Results for: Lydia , Lancashire, England, British Isles
Spouse: William Woodward
Exact Spelling: Off
Batch Number: m005393

International Genealogical Index / British Isles - 1
Select records to download - (50 maximum)
1. LYDIA PEMBERTON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Marriage: 11 APR 1814 Leigh, Lancashire, England


Results for: Lancashire, England, British Isles
Father: William Woodward, Mother: Lydia
Exact Spelling: Off
Batch Number: c005394

International Genealogical Index / British Isles - 5
Select records to download - (50 maximum)
1. JAMES WOODWARD - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 05 SEP 1823 Leigh, Lancashire, England

2. REBECCA WOODWARD - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: About 16 FEB 1817 Leigh, Lancashire, England

3. ROBERT WOODWARD - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 25 APR 1819 Leigh, Lancashire, England

4. ELLEN WOODWARD - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: JUN 1815 Leigh, Lancashire, England

5. RICHARD WOODWARD - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: JUL 1821 Leigh, Lancashire, England


Batch Number: c005395

International Genealogical Index / British Isles - 6
Select records to download - (50 maximum)
1. JAMES WOODWARD - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 22 APR 1832 Leigh, Lancashire, England

2. LYDIA WOODWARD - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 05 JUL 1835 Leigh, Lancashire, England

3. WILLIAM DOCTOR WOODWARD - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 02 NOV 1833 Leigh, Lancashire, England

4. REBECCA WOODWARD - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: About 25 NOV 1838 Leigh, Lancashire, England

5. JOSEPH WOODWARD - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 31 JAN 1826 Leigh, Lancashire, England

6. ROBERT WOODWARD - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 10 MAY 1829 Leigh, Lancashire, England



I presume there are online transcriptions of the baptismal entries, but marrs 1787 on have not been done yet. The entry of most interest is:

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Leigh/stmary/indexp.html
Baptism: 2 Nov 1833 St Mary the Virgin, Leigh, Lancashire, England
William Doctor Woodward - Son of William Woodward & Lydia
Abode: Westleigh
Occupation: Husbandman
Baptised by: Wm Lister Officating Minister
Register: Baptisms 1829 - 1834, Page 258, Entry 2062
Source: LDS Film 1885649


Also the replacement Rebecca looks young enough to have a stat rego, probably this one:

Births Sep 1838 (>99%)
Woodward Rebecca Leigh 21 468

I think it's possible that his birth is not registered - it was not compulsory until 1875.

In the 1871 census he has a brother Ignatius who is 8 months old, so born in 1870. I can't find a birth registered for him either.

UPDATE - Ignore that last remark. Just found the birth of Ignatius:-

Name: Ignatius Woodward
Year of Registration: 1870
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Leigh
County: Greater Manchester, Lancashire
Volume: 8c
Page: 211

Kath. x

is hindley part of wigan

Then he may be one of these two registered in Wigan?....or his birth may not have been registered at all.


Births Dec 1858 (>99%)
Woodward William Wigan 8c 21


Births Jun 1859 (>99%)
WOODWARD William Wigan 8c 78

Thats the one i sent for but the parents were robert & rebecca

He may be this one in Leigh?

Births Jun 1860 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WOODWARD William Leigh 8c 20_

Edit: should read 8c 204

Looks like Doctor is his middle name (christening from the IGI):-

WILLIAM DOCTOR WOODWARD
Male


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 02 NOV 1833 Leigh, Lancashire, England

Death:
Burial:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: WILLIAM WOODWARD
Mother: LYDIA

Kath. x

can any one find his birth i will look on freebmd

I hadn't noticed there were children missing on the 1861! Must go and have a look


He is also just William Woodward on the 1841 as far as I can make out.



sylvia

This seems like the same person in 1851 but this time he just has the name William Woodward and not Doctor William Woodward. He is living at Dangerous Corner:-

Name: William Woodward
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Lydia
Gender: Male
Where born: Westleigh, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Westleigh
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address: Dangerous Corner

Occupation: William jnr. is a Labourer. William Snr. is a Beerseller

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View Image
Registration district: Leigh
Sub registration district: West Leigh
ED, institution, or vessel: 2a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 51
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Woodward 22
Lydia Woodward 56
Lydia Woodward 14
Rebecca Woodward 4
William Woodward 64
William Woodward 15

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2205; Folio: 151; Page: 16; GSU roll: 87215.

Kath. x