Find Ancestors

Somebody here at GR has Harriet Edge 1859 Salford in her tree!

I may yet collect one descendant for each of those Hill siblings. ;)

And somebody else has Hannah Hill 1875 Salford!

Looks like the great-rellies are on the Edge side.

1881 England Census
Name: James Banning
Age: 56
Estimated birth year: abt 1825
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Alice
Gender: Male
Where born: Hoghton, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Bramhall
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Street Address: Station St

Condition as to marriage: Married

Occupation: Cashier & Sectary To Club

Registration district: Stockport
Sub-registration district: Hazelgrove
Household Members:
Name Age
James Banning 56
Alice Banning 47
Susannah Edge 23 - niece; teacher of music
Anne Booth 14


Marriages Sep 1868
Banning James Barton On Irwell 8c 608
Edge Alice Susannah H Barton 8c 608
Jackson Mary Barton 8c 608
Spencer John Barton 8c 608

Ah yes, they would be.

If anybody can spot him in 1871 or after 1881 ...


Births Mar 1845
HILL William Stephen Stoke Damerel 9 480


1861

Name: William Hill
[William Stephen Hill]
Age: 15
Estimated birth year: abt 1846
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Sarah
Where born: Devonport, Devon, England
Civil parish: St Andrew
County/Island: Devon

??????

Births Mar 1875
Edge Hannah Chester 8a 421
Births Mar 1876
Edge Hannah Manchester 8d 209

Good possibilities -- also, other family (Ernest himself with mother Emma, and sister Ada Lennox Monck Hill/Monck Coke, with husband Charles Coke/McCock -- Ada was in Chester reg dist) were in Cheshire in 81.


I was hoping to find that next brother Jacob James Hill 1844 had a kid between the 1871 census and his death late 1872 (or in the months following),

Deaths Dec 1872
HILL James 26 Strand 1b 320

but no such luck so far ...

Why does it also have a correction to William Cheshire on the 1861 census? Where does that come from?


Ozi

Ancestry's moronic system. That is the married surname of eldest sister Emma. I added it years ago. That was before you could select which household members to apply names to (that only started a few weeks ago). So all over Ancestry, I have ancestors with extra surnames that belong to their daughters or sisters ... I'm going to get around to trashing and replacing them all eventually!

No luck at all, Janey. Thought I found a couple of possibles then found them elsewhere in 1881.

Ozi

Very very old one, that is, long before what is now known was known! ;) [edit - in ref to a link in the deleted post above - thanks, Robert]

Actually I'd be grateful if you'd delete that link for me, as the info in it isn't of any use and in fact is misleading and just muddies the waters, since I've since found the right answers to numerous of those questions (e.g. who Mary Emma Hill really married -- John Cheshire) and that link just contains old discounted stuff for the most part.

Trust me on this (as in my Richard Barnard and Reuben Cooper threads) -- *anything* you find on the net about these people comes from me, one way or another, and anything that isn't in this thread here is either garbled info that originally came from me or old efforts since corrected!


Yeah, you and me both, Ozi! So somewhere, there's a death record for a William Hill who lied about his age and, as far as I can tell, was not in touch with any family at the time ...

But speaking of Mary Emma Hill and John Cheshire - yay! I should have got the birth cert for a couple of kids in their household 1871-81-91 long ago, but never did, and now I find an answer at pilot.familysearch.

1881 for example:

John R. Cheshire 38
Emma Cheshire 38
Eliza Cheshire 17
Chas. R. Cheshire 16
Alfred Cheshire 15
Arthur Cheshire 13
Edward Cheshire 12
Amy Cheshire 9
Walter Cheshire 8

Well, I find Arthur anyway: 12 Sept 1867, St Peter's, Liverpool, parents John Cheshire and Emma. Which doesn't answer the question of whether they were all Emma's kids ... since I've never found a marriage ...

Hello JC,

Must admit I haven't read through any of this except for the last post and haven't got the inclination tonight. Sorry! Just don't feel up to anything too stretching.

However, i noticed that you had a link to Liverpool on your last post. I'm not very reliable and don't know if the temporary records office is even open at the moment and what they're holding at the moment but let me know if you need me to look for any records in Liverpool and I will see what I can do.

If you do, it will probably best to send me a pm as I'll have half a chance of finding it again.

Well that is too good an offer to pass up. ;)

That Arthur Cheshire birth there would be a start, and I'll see whether I can pin down any of the other kids' births (wanna know what the mother's full name is). I haven't ordered a birth certificate in all these years yet, so we won't need to be rushing.

Of course this thread will now show up in "your threads" permanently, SRS -- but it isn't exactly an active one, it gets something added and just sinks again, so you can ignore it. ;)

I don't think there will be any rushing unfortunately, Rose has seen a thread which didn't sound very encouraging about the temporary record office in the museum. It should have have opened a while back...if you don't mind waiting.....I'll keep this on file.

I lose threads very easily. I post too much rubbish lol. If you pm me with a link to your thread(s) I should be able to track it back more easily.

Calling the fan club. ;)

Remember ... hahaha ... my wildest theory here?

Gr-Grf Ernest always said he was the son of a black sheep younger brother of a Viscount Monck. This was a handy tale to go with his name in Canada, because the Viscount who would be the one in question was Governor General of Canada, handpicked by Queen Vicky to preside over Confederation in 1867, and quite well thought of over here.

So, over time, I desultorily dug around in the Viscounts Monck. Eventually I discovered he did have a younger brother, and that he didn't marry and was killed at Alma.

This is him in 1851:

Name: William Monck (Captain)
Age: 27
Estimated birth year: abt 1824
Where born: Tamplamore, Tipperary, Ireland (Templemore)
Civil parish: Portsmouth

http://thepeerage.com/p3882.htm

Captain William Monck
M, #38820, b. 28 February 1823, d. 20 September
Captain William Monck was born on 28 February 1823. He was the son of Charles Joseph Kelly Monck, 3rd Viscount Monck and Bridget Willington. He died on 20 September 1854 at age 31, killed in action.
Captain William Monck fought in the Battle of Alma on 20 September 1854.

He would have been sent out only very shortly before his death; I forget the dates just now, but only a short time.

Ada (the Actress) Lennox Monck Hill was born in Q4 1854, in Cornwall.

In 1861 she and her mother and sibs were in Plymouth, apparently estranged from the husband/father Francis Hill. (By 1857, he shows up on a mining lease option, recorded as living in Middlesex, goes bankrupt in the late 1860s, and by 1871 has a new kid, whose mother he then marries.)

The question: was Sarah Emma Bond Hill (? whether she ever married Hill) the English captain's woman? She was born in 1819, a smidge older, a woman with kids, I dunno.

Anyhow ...

I've had some PMs this week inquiring about the Moncks in my tree, from someone I know here through our mutual distaste for the bigotry on the boards. Were mine descended from General George Monck? (He's the one who restored the monarchy.) Well, I don't think anyone is descended from him, actually, although there are some yanks who claim to be.

And why did she ask? Well her friend X is a Monck connected with that line. And next thing I know, I find he's ... well, I won't say specifically ... but let me just say:

I want his DNA!

Yes, Capt Monck is a relation of his.

I hadn't ever wanted to go begging blue blood and spit from one of the nobility, and here one has fallen into my lap. ;)

My GR PM buddy is exchanging our email addresses ...

I have been right about absolutely everything I set my mind to in this bunch. I fear I am about to run out my luck. ;)

oooooh Janey


that sounds really promising!



s

Let's hope he'll give you a tipple, Janey.


Ozi

Oh no.
Blue blood for real?
Does that mean that when we call you "Her Maj"or "The Imperial One"when talking about you behind your face that we are in fact along the right lines.
Think I need a lie down..:)

But its nice to hear you are getting somewhere as you have worked hard at this .

Okay, all youse, just ignore me. If you can resist, FBG. ;)

Just playing with Mary Emma Hill, eldest sibling of Ernest and Ada, born c1843, Jersey, husband John Rogers Cheshire, no marriage ever found.




Groom's Name: John Cheshire
Groom's Birth Date: 1889
Groom's Age: 26
Bride's Name: Amy Elizabeth Howells
Bride's Birth Date: 1886
Bride's Age: 29
Marriage Date: 02 Feb 1915
Marriage Place: Wybunbury, Cheshire, England
Groom's Father's Name: Alfred Cheshire >> son of Emma Hill and John Cheshire
Bride's Father's Name: Thomas Howells
Groom's Marital Status: Single
Bride's Marital Status: Single

Name: Arthur Cheshire
Baptism/Christening Date: 23 Sep 1867
Baptism/Christening Place: St. Peter's, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father's Name: John Cheshire
Mother's Name: Emma


One child confirmed as Emma's but Q remains of older children.


Name: Emma Cheshire
Baptism/Christening Date: 26 Dec 1880
Baptism/Christening Place: St Peter's, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father's Name: John Cheshire
Mother's Name: Mary ?
- not in 1881 census

Deaths Jun 1881 ?
CHESHIRE Emma 0 Birkenhead 8a 286
- before 1881 census? Emma Hill Cheshire later lived in Birkenhead ...

Name: Esther Cheshire
Baptism/Christening Date: 18 Jul 1882
Baptism/Christening Place: St Peter's, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father's Name: John Cheshire
Mother's Name: Mary

>> rule out both Emma and Esther: the household is in Birkenhead in 1891 with Esther living.

Name: Clara Elizabeth Cheshire ??
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 01 Jun 1864
Baptism/Christening Place: SAINT PETER, LIVERPOOL, LANCASHIRE,ENGLAND
Birth Date: 02 Jan 1864
Father's Name: John Cheshire
Mother's Name: Clara

>> No. They are in the 1871, child Clara apparently died in infancy.



Aha, one question answered. Emma's grx2grd and I had wondered whether the marriage to Martha Palin was our John Cheshire ... the funny thing being that Martha was previously a servant in the household of a married Lovett Cameron daughter, surname Lacy as I recall, which would have been a huge coincidence. ;)

Groom's Name: John Cheshire
Groom's Birth Date: 1840
Groom's Age: 21
Bride's Name: Martha Palin
Bride's Birth Date: 1838
Bride's Age: 23
Marriage Date: 1861
Marriage Place: Nantwich, Cheshire, England
Groom's Father's Name: Thomas Cheshire >> our John's father was John
Bride's Father's Name: Thomas Palin

John Rogers Cheshire in Swansea in 1851:

John Cheshire 45
Jane Cheshire 45
Sarah A Cheshire 21
Elizabeth Cheshire 20
Frederick Cheshire 19
Frances Cheshire 16
> John Cheshire 11

Household in 1881:

John R. Cheshire 38
Emma Cheshire 38
Eliza Cheshire 17 ?
Chas. R. Cheshire 16
Alfred Cheshire 15
Arthur Cheshire 13
Edward Cheshire 12
Amy Cheshire 9
Walter Cheshire 8


Here's an odd one ... with *my* William's info in brackets ...

Groom's Name: William Edwin Libby Hill [William Stephen (Hoare) Hill]
Groom's Birth Date: 1845 [1846]
Groom's Birthplace: London, England [Devon]
Groom's Age: 36
Bride's Name: Ellen Chadband
Bride's Birth Date: 1848
Bride's Birthplace: London, England
Bride's Age: 33
Marriage Date: 01 Jan 1881
Marriage Place: St. Phillips, Collingwood, Victoria, Australia
Groom's Father's Name: William Francis Hill [Francis Hoare Hill]
Groom's Mother's Name: Sarah Rebecca Sibley [Sarah Emma Bond]
Bride's Father's Name: Henry Janes Chadband
Bride's Mother's Name: Caroline Wighton
System Origin: Australia

William's grandmother, mother of Sarah Emma Bond, was Sarah Sibly. No William Edw* Lib* Sib* Hill birth in England. Huh, hmm.


Oh my goodness, a baptism for William. Brother James (Jacob James) was baptised shortly before his death, in 1872 in St Clement Danes. A batch of four including Ernest and Ada were baptised 1857 in Cornwall.

Name: William Stephen Hill
Baptism/Christening Date: 17 Jan 1860
Baptism/Christening Place: Antony, Cornwall, England [mother Sarah's birthplace]
Father's Name: Francis ... Hill
Mother's Name: Sarah Emma Hill

What was the impetus for this? Father Francis seemed already to be living in London. Francis is named as father on birth certs of William and James, two known eldest except for Mary Emma.


Enough for me, time for quiche and Medium. Ignore me!

Yoo hoo, Hill/Monck fans! Fans with FMP access ... and yes, FBG Fans, I guess that means you.

British Army Service Records 1760-1913

Search criteria used:
First name: Stephen(including variants)
Last name: Hill
Country of birth: England
County of birth: Devon
Year of birth: 1822 +/- 5 years

HILL Stephen year of birth "?"


That's a tad vague -- it's a match on the name but nothing else, but I wonder what it might say inside.

The brother of Francis Hoare Hill, father of Ernest, was Stephen Hill baptised 1822 in Tamerton Foliatt, Devon. I think he probably died shortly after (there was a private baptism first, indicating a child not expected to survive, then a public one). But you never know.

Pretty pretty please!

Hello,

Ada LM Hill, actress, lived a few doors down from my gggrandfather. He was publican of the Spread Eagle Tavern at 56 Broad Street, Bloomsbury. Ada lived at 58a. There is web site with a photo and some details of her acting roles. Hope this helps.

Jo Clutton