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Hi I have searched to no avail ... does anyone please have ideas of where to look? William London Busch Handyside born 31/01/1860 Midlothian, Edinburgh. Son of William and Isabella A (nee Baird). 1891 Census living at 18 Norfolk Street, St Georges, Hanover Square, London, with wife Alice Eva and two sons, William N B and Jack (John) R B. My Great Grandfather, Alan B was born a year later. 1901 census - Alice E now under name of Robinson, living with Edgar Baily Robinson, with daughter Alice M B, at Mill House, Elstead, Surrey. 1901 census - Three Handyside brothers visitors to Emley Farm, Thursley, Surrey all under the name Robinson. 1903 Alan B sent to King Edwards school, Witley Surrey - father dead and whereabouts of mother unknown. Three boys reverted to the name Handyside, have traced marriages for John R B and William N B. Alan went on to be adopted between 1903 and 1908 by Cullerne family and changed his name. Married my Great Gran, Caroline Allright Babbage in 1917. But killed in action Oct 1918, two months before my Gran born. Why can't I find a death for his father, William L B Handyside or his mother Alice Eva (nee Macmichael, born Dec 1862, Hobart, Tasmania)? Thank you for taking the time to read this, family tree has opened a can of worms .. only found out about adoption this year and I want to find out everything I can for my Gran whos almost 88. Its become a fascinating journey. Sara

Sara, Don't see a death, a marriage for Edgar and Alice or a birth for Alice M B. I see a marriage for Alice M B Handyside in 1913. Rose

Edgar Baily Robinson marriage 1902 mar qt Strand gro ref 1b 870. other names on the page Julia Eliza King. Sybil Maynard Carthew. Margaret

Hi Rose I have birth cert for Alice Mary Baily Robinson she was born July 1894, Kensington. Registered in Oct 1894 by Edgar Baily Robinson of 21 Ladbroke Grove. Mother Alice Eva (Macmichael) -doesn't mention her being married to a Handyside before though! Yes, I wondered about the marriage for Alice M Handyside. I haven't found a marriage for the above two, but one for Edgar Baily Robinson in 1902, The Strand? I haven't been able to find deaths for: William London Busch Handyside Alice Eva Macmichael/Handyside/Robinson? Alice Mary Baily Robinson/Handyside? John(Jack) Raymond Baird Handyside I have very kindly been given the info on the death of William Norman Baird Handyside, in 1984, NSW, aged 96. Know his wife Hilda died in NSW 1974.Hoping to track down possible descendants there. This is a real family mystery. My Gran thought her father was an only child but potentially there could be a number of close descendants out there. Wonder why the family were broken up - this research all started with a document Gran found - the Handyside family seem to have been well off and if I'm right have traced them back to St Petersburg, Russia. If only I could find someone for my Gran, gosh it would make more than her day! Sara

Thanks Margaret Yes, had found that but unfortunately thats not to Alice Eva! The school Alan was sent to(King Edwards, Witley) seems to have been for orphans and fatherless ... admissions register states whereabouts of mother unknown and father dead. Doesn't mention rest of family and older brothers didn't go there too. Its a mystery....

Sara, Odd thing is my relatives worked at that same school. Think they lived in the gatehouse. Rose

Rose Spooky! Not come across the name CULLERNE have you? What dates were they there? I have a fab old book with lots of info on staff and pupils - obituaries, letters, old boys, few photos etc . Dates pupils from about late 1800's to 1920. Sara

Sara, I need to check my records. I thought they were they in 1881 but I don't see them. Will get back to you. Thanks, Rose

Sara, I don't see a birth for John/Jack R on FreeBMD. Rose

Hi Hope you don't mind me 'butting in'. With all the mysterious goings on in this family, I think that perhaps Edgar Robinson and Alice did not get married until 1902 - unless she died and he was marrying someone else. So get the certificate - perhaps she separated from William Handyside before the birth of Alice, but he was not dead, so she could not remarry (though that did not seem to worry some people). If Alice MB was Edgars child born in 1894, William left after Alans conception and before Alices. Have you looked to see if William returned to Scotland (1901 census ?), Did you see him maried to Adelaide in the 1881 census ? Did you also see that both Edgar and his brother Francis were stock brokers - perhaps Edgar and William had some business dealings ? Have to go to cricket with my son, but will check some more later (its 4.30 pm here in Sydney) Diane

Thanks for your thoughts Diane. Don't think Edgar married Alice in 1902, records don't seem to match. Yes, most of Edgar's family seem to be in the Stock Broking business. William was of 'independent means'. Just want to know what happened to him and trace descendants.

Rose I did find it, need to check again as want to order the cert! Was searching for Jack for ages on all the records, he was John Raymond Baird Handyside and he married Ethel Brittan - haven't found death for them either. Maybe they went abroad, as William Norman Baird Handyside and his wife Hilda (Haime) went to New South Wales. My Gr Grandfather Alan Baird Handyside went to Buenos Aires working for Western Union, but came back to enlist - 2nd Liuet Royal Weat Kent Regt. Was killed in action 1918.

Hi Sara I take that you have seen the Wikipedia entries for the Handysides and Bairds - explains why William was counted as independently wealthy. Regarding Edgar marriage entry in freebmd - it looks to me like not all the marriage partners have been transcribed as yet - marriages usually have four marriages to a page - so four brides and four grooms will appear in a freebmd search whenall are transcribed, s= Would you like me to look up the SydneyMorningHerald death notices for Norman and Hilda - the death notices will tell if they had any surviving relatives, or do you have them already. Unfortunately, if his brother came to Australia, but not NSW, not all the records are available on line. Victoria and WA are. DIane

Diane That would be amazing! If they have any children still living they are my Gran's direct cousins. Yes, have seen Wikipedia and it is the same line. The Handyside Trust is mentioned in my Great Grandfather's will. But of course, we only found out about this in the last year. Because he was adopted between 1903 and 1908 my Gran thought she was a Cullerne. This is a fascinating and emotional journey for my Gran, I can't thank you enough for your help. Sara

Diane Will this help with the look up? William Norman Baird Handyside born 1888 Sevenoaks, Kent, England - parents William London Busch Handyside and Alice Eva (nee Macmichael) Hilda Clarissa Bessie Handyside (nee Haime) born 1892, Bath, Somerset - parents Herbert Howell Haime and Elizabeth (?) , England. Thanks x

Hi Sara the extra info might help, although Hildas parents are given on her death reg. Her death certificate will also name parents and children but will try the newspaper death notices first. Norman is listed under Baird-Handyside and Hilda under Handyside in the death notice index, but she is under both in the official bdm index. No Baird-Handysides in the current whitepages but several Handysides around. It might take a few days before I can get over to Parramatta to the library, but I shall pm to you Diane

Diane THANK YOU You don't know how much this means.x

Hi Sara, Will PM the details of my Witley relatives. I found them. Since 1852 there are only 2 marriages per page so there are no missing spouses on the 1902 Edgar B Robinson marriage and it is fully transcribed. Rose

Diane Yes that does help, thank you so much. Grateful of any assistance here, don't think Edgar and Alice Eva could have been married. She may have returned to Tasmania, still had family there. Interesting that her three sons took the name Robinson on 1901 census although they were visiting a farm! What is for sure though is they didn't keep the name Robinson, infact I'm beginning to wonder if Alice Mary (born 1894) was a Handyside and its her marriage to Harnden?? The plot thickens...

Just a thought Diane ... is William London Busch Handyside born 1860 Midlothian on The Times digital images? The father of the three boys.