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(UPDATED following info from Jim) A couple of weeks ago I got my great grandmother, ELIZABETH's, birth certificate. On it it named her mother as JANET BIRKETT formerly MORSON., Someone researching Elizabeth's sister, DOROTHY ANN has just had her birth cert turn up and on it it lists the mother as JANET BIRKETT formerly MORRISON., I know from a variety of sources that Janet Morson/ Morrison was born in Campsie Scotland somewhere between 1833 and 1837, Most likely 1836 ish Can any one look up Janet Morrison and her family in any of the census's. If this is the right one I have her living in England (with her husband JOHN BIRKETT ( born Lancashire c.1826) and 1year old son also John (born Scotland c.1860) from1861 onwards. I need to know anything I can get about her and her family Before she moved to England. Is there a record of her marriage to John or the birth of John Jnr Thank you very much for looking, Jan :)

Jan Not sure what the problem is? What is it you want help with? OC

hi have this alot in my tree ie craig?cragg?crigg even had sran for sloan/slone/sloane ... my guess is that they couldnt spell very well in them days tracy

Hi OC A couple of things really. I (and several others) have been trying to find out about JANET MORSON, with no luck, we couldn't find her or her husband JOHN BIRKETT before the 1861 English census. I the 1871 census she lists her place of birth as Campsie Scotland, in all the other census's she just puts Scotland, In the 1861 and 1871 census there is also a son JOHN BIRKETT born Scotland 1860 (All subsequent children born in South Shields). Also in the census, her age last birthday meant that she was born around 1835-1836, but the only Janet Morson born in Campsie was born in 1833. Mhairi and others have looked for a marriage certificate for her and John and a birth certificate but nothing has come up. But if she was Janet MORRISON that would be an entirely different thing. I think I need to amend the thread to ask for a search on Janet Morrison. Take care Jan :)

You're not wrong there Tracy, In fairness Janet could only sign her name with an X, so presumably she couldn't read either to check if they'd spelt it correctly. And she would have had a Scottish accent trying to talk to english (Geordie) officials. All the best Jan :)

hi when i go on the lds site they give different variations of spellings of the surnames but the right people and places tracy

Thanks Jim That looks a very likely, doesn't it All the best Jan :)

Hi Jan Yes, I see your new thread. I am not convinced that you have the wrong name originally, as I said I sent you all the John Birket Marriages for all years & areas in Scotland and not one Morrison partner on there. Also sent you all Male Birkett marriages & their partners and not one on there. I know we have not found the marriage for Janet to John anywhere either in Scotland or England, but you did think that they returned to Scotland to marry and therefore we have checked for this marriage. It did not come to light, nor did it come to light when Mhairi checked at GRO in Edinburgh, but likwise no sign of Janet Morrison to John Birkett either. I still think the document is mistranscribed. I still think Morson will be the correct spelling, and it could be that we will never find the marriage of John to Janet, as it is possible that they never married. Janice

Oh, right, I understand - thought you had already picked up on the difference in spelling on your previous thread! OC

Hi Janice. I'm keeping an open mind here (until I have proof one way or the other) Love Jan x

Hi Jan Have sent you PM. Checked Scotland's People site for birth of John abt 1860. No John Birkett as you know. No John Morson as you know. 2 John Morrison births: One 1861 Parents William Morrison & Jean Morrison Nee Callum One 1859 Parents Alexander Morrison & Janet Crooks. England Find my Family: One John Morson as you know. A couple of John Morrison's Located some John Birkett births too. What Now? Not convinced you should be looking at Morrison. Love Janice x

Hi Janice Don't worry I haven't changed my tree yet. I will wait until I have evidence one way or the other. However at the moment we have 2 names for one woman and each one could fit. In fact the Morrison one does look more likely because 1) throughout all the census Janet give her age , consistantly, at something that put her as being born around 1836. Janet Morson was born in 1833, Janet Morrison was born in about 1837. 2) Lorna has researched this branch of the Morson's extensively, ALL of Janet Morson's siblings could read and write, or at least well enough to sign their names. My Janet, however signed her name with a cross. It is possible that Janet had a learning disability( dyslexia throughout the family), It is also possible that the family chose not to educate this daughter, but unlikely, surely even if she wasn't taught anything else, an educated family would insist on her being taught to, at least,write her own name. What do you think? Is there any logic in what I've suggested? Love Jan

Good morning Jim Thanks for looking at this. As you will have worked out I think the Janet Morrison you found in the 1841 census may well be the one we are looking for. Do you have anymore details there, father's occupation, address, anything? Thanks again Jan :D

Are you sure all of them could read and write? Perhaps i'm wrong but i though Agnes signed her name with a cross on her childrens birth certs, then again i wasnt paying that much attention to that part so maybe i'm wrong. I have an ancestor who always gives her age as the same on each census with a birth year of 1826 however she was actually born/christened in 1823. Her husband was seven years younger than her and i think thats why she lied about her age. Did Elizabeth and Dorothy have other siblings? Maybe it would be an idea for you to purchase another birth cert to see what that says. The only other way of doing it would be to trace all the Jane Morsons/Morrisons and see what happends to them. Mhairi

Although i dont have access to the full ancestry scottish index, i've been having a bit of a play about with it and by the looks of it the Janet Morrison that Jim found in the 1841 with parents John and Janet appears in the 1861 scottish census. Someone will need to double check it but if she was still there then she cant be the one your looking for. Mhairi

do you have a copy of this ladies death cert if so you will find her maiden name on ther ive just looked at my grt grans to check for you

Hi Mhairi Yes, Agnes did mark with an x on childrens births. I have the birth of Hugh on record from Scotland's People which I sent to Jan. I have just opened it up and double checked and definately signed with a X I second what you say about the birth certificates, Jan knows the births of children of the marriage as far as I am aware and it would help to check others. I have a niece who married in England in the 1980s and even her name is mistranscribed. It still happens you see even when you can read and write. Janice

Hi Jan & Team of Helpers. I have just checked Jan's other thread on Morson and on there Jan say's that on Elizabeth Birkett's Birth Certificate 1873 Janet gave her maiden name as Morson. So there you go, mistranscription is going on somewhere. Still backing Morson as the match. Janice

Janice I'm still going with the name Morson as well, until - if ever - there is some proof that it is Morrison. Where any of the children or grandchildren given the middle name Morson or Morrison? Sometimes that helps to determin the maiden name of the mother or grandparents. Mhairi

Hi Mhairi Not that I know of? Jan off this weekend with her daughter for a birthday treat. Think she is getting bogged down with doubt? Shame really as it has come together so good, still think baby John holds some kind of family secret? Pity we cannot find out more on John Birkett Senior from Manchester, I have a feeling he may have been married before he met Janet? But without his definate birth details and who is Parents were it is very difficult to track him. Even if Jan gets his death certificate and it gives Janet as his Wife, in England it will not give his Parents names as far as I am aware. Janice x