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Hello, I am hoping that the amazing detectives here can help me with a tree I am building for a friend who has hit a brick wall - and so have I.

We are looking for birth records for Gertrude Hill (who married James Robert Blezard), according to the 1939 register born 11 October 1887, the 1921 census says born Sheffield. Her father was James Hill. Her sisters were Edith Violet, c1888 Sheffield, and Elizabeth Ethel, c1893 Sheffield. I might have found the sisters in the 1911 living with their mother Eleanor, but have not found Gertrude other than in the 1921.

According to the 1911 entry, though, Eleanor had 11 children, 2 of whom had died, which makes it very uncertain if she is the correct one. Married 42 years = 1869.

If you could work your magic once again, I should be very grateful.

Janet

James was a steel dresser, and apparently still living at the time of Edith Violet's marriage:

Edith Violet Hill
in the Manchester, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1930
Name: Edith Violet Hill
Gender: Female
Marriage Age: 23
Event Type: Marriage
Birth Year: abt 1888
Marriage Date: 13 Apr 1911
Marriage Place: Miles Platting, St John The Evangelist, Manchester, England
Father: James Hill
Spouse: Ernest Stephenson Wood
Reference Number: M194/1/2/2
Archive Roll: 865

He's also a steel dresser per Gertrude's marriage cert.


Births ??? - though not in the expected years:

???
HILL, ELIZABETH ETHEL mmn CROPPER
GRO Reference: 1891 S Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 554


???
HILL, EDITH mmn CROPPER
GRO Reference: 1887 M Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 477

???
HILL, GERTRUDE mmn CROPPER
GRO Reference: 1880 D Quarter in ECCLESALL BIERLOW Volume 09C Page 300


But can't see a James Hill / El* Cropper marriage.

Thanks Gran - I had put the name Cropper with ??? after it, as I couldn't confirm it. I can't find a possible Hill/Cropper marriage, ignoring the names James and Eleanor.

Erika, would the marriage certificate help? We know her father's name and occupation, she is on a tight budget so can't buy certificates unless she is sure they will give new information. That's why we were hoping to find Gertrude's birth record.

??? (Continuing from the births posted earlier )

Gertrude Hill
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Gertrude Hill
Gender: Female
Age: 9
Relationship: Daughter
Birth Year: 1882
Father:
James Hill
Mother:
Elizabeth Hill
Birth Place: Sheffield, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Brightside Bierlow
Ecclesiastical parish: Brightside
Residence Place: Brightside Bierlow, Yorkshire, England
Registration district: Sheffield
Sub registration district: Brightside
ED, Institution or Vessel: 59
Neighbors:
Piece: 3836
Folio: 14
Household Members Age Relationship
James Hill 43 Head - IRON DRESSER
Elizabeth Hill 39 Wife
William Hill 21 Son
Mary J Hill 19 Daughter
Eliza Hill 16 Daughter
Joe Hill 14 Son
Walter Hill 12 Son
Gertrude Hill 9 Daughter
Arthur Hill 5 Son
Edith Hill 4 Daughter


HILL, ARTHUR mmn CROPPER
GRO Reference: 1884 D Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 552


This looks like some of that family in 1901:

Elizabeth Hill
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Elizabeth Hill [ married, washerwoman ]
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrew
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Manchester
Sub-registration district: Central
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Neighbors:
Piece: 3748
Folio: 22
Page number: 36
Household schedule number: 227

Also in that household - Walter 1882 Manchester, Arthur 1885 Sheffield, Edith 1888 Sheffield.

and 1881:

Gertrude Hill
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Gertrude Hill
Relationship to Head: Daughter
Father: James Hill
Mother: Elizabeth Hill
Gender: Female
Where born: Sheffield, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Nether Hallam
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street Address: 15 Kelvin Place
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Registration District: Ecclesall Bierlow
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors:
Piece: 4623
Folio: 49
Page Number: 36
Household Members:
Name Age
James Hill 35 - brass dresser
Elizabeth Hill 29
William H. Hill 11
Mary J. Hill 10
Eliza Hill 6
Joseph Hill 4
Walter Hill 2
Gertrude Hill

Brass dresser is a possiblity, as he was Steel dresser on daughter's marriage record. 1881 is a lot earlier than her 1939 register entry suggests, and from GRO it looks as if that birth was registered in June Q 1880. She may have entered the wrong year in 1939, but its unusual for the day/month to be wrong, so I had discounted this one. I can't find Gertrude Elsie in the 1911.

Mistranscribed on Ancestry:

Gertrude Elsie Bleyard
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Gertrude Elsie Bleyard
Age in 1911: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1885
Relation to Head: Daughter [ in law ]
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Sheffield, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Manchester
Country: England
Street Address: 76 Ridgway St Butler St Manchester
Marital status: Married
Occupation: Cook At Chemical Works
Registration District Number: 466
Sub-registration District: Ancoats
ED, institution, or vessel: 23
Piece: 24111
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth Bleyard 71
James Robert Bleyard 35 - son
Gertrude Elsie Bleyard 26 - daughter-in-law
Ethel Bleyard 10/12 - grand-daughter


BLEZARD, ETHEL mmn HILL
GRO Reference: 1910 S Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 181

Thanks Gran, that looks promising - too many Gertrude Hills around for my liking

The only other Gertrude Hills registered in Sheffield 1880-88 are these:

HILL, GERTRUDE mmn MCCUE
GRO Reference: 1883 M Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 579


But this is probably the parents' marriage:

Marriages Mar 1882 (>99%)
Hill Henry Sheffield 9c 618
MCCUE Annie Elizabeth Sheffield 9c 618

In 1911 that Gertrude is still single, and living with her mother.



and:
HILL, GERTRUDE mmn JACKSON
GRO Reference: 1880 J Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 588

Her father's name was James:

James Hill
in the England, Select Marriages, 1538-1973
Name: James Hill
Gender: Male
Age: 34
Birth Date: 1832
Marriage Date: 24 Jan 1866
Marriage Place: Sheffield, York, England
Spouse: Esther Jackson
FHL Film Number: 1470665

But she died in infancy:

Deaths Sep 1881 (>99%)
HILL Gertrude 1 Sheffield 9c 279

Yes, I'd already discounted the McCue connection because of the husband's name.

Gertrude Blezard
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Gertrude Blezard
Death Age: 79
Birth Date: abt 1886 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Registration Date: Jul 1965
[Aug 1965] [Sep 1965] Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration District: Blackpool
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 10b
Page: 426

On Gertrude's marriage certificate 1908 her age is given as 23 = c1885. No sign of middle name Elsie here though.

The name Elsie only appears in 1911.
Her mother-in-law filled in the form.
Maybe she was known as Elsie in the family.

In the 1921 she gives her age as 32 years 7 months.

HILL, WILLIAM HENRY SMITH
GRO Reference: 1869 J Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 218

HILL, MARY JANE SMITH
GRO Reference: 1871 M Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 236

HILL, ELIZA SMITH
GRO Reference: 1874 S Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 234

???HILL, JAMES SMITH
GRO Reference: 1872 S Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 226

??? DEATH
HILL, JAMES 1
GRO Reference: 1873 S Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 177

HILL, JOSEPH SMITH
GRO Reference: 1876 S Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 253


From this census.

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census
15, Kelvin Place, Nether Hallam, Ecclesall Bierlow, Yorkshire & Yorkshire (West Riding), England

Household members (8 people)
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
James Hill Head
Married Male 35 1846 Brass dresser Manchester, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Hill Wife
Married Female 29 1852 - Manchester, Lancashire, England
William H Hill Son
Single Male 11 1870 Scholar Manchester, Lancashire, England
Mary J Hill Daughter
Single Female 10 1871 Scholar Manchester, Lancashire, England
Eliza Hill Daughter
Single Female 6 1875 Scholar Manchester, Lancashire, England
Joseph Hill Son
Single Male 4 1877 - Manchester, Lancashire, England
Walter Hill Son
Single Male 2 1879 - Manchester, Lancashire, England
Gertrude Hill Daughter
Single Female 0 1881 - Sheffield, Yorkshire, England


Marriage of James and Elizabeth?

Marriages Dec 1868 (>99%)
HILL James Manchester 8d 236
Merrin Sarah Manchester 8d 236
Smith Elizabeth Manchester 8d 236
WAINWRIGHT Charles Manchester 8d 236

First name(s) James
Last name Hill
County Lancashire
Marriage year 1868
Marriage date 25 Oct 1868
Marriage place Manchester
Spouse's first name(s) Elizabeth
Spouse's last name Smith

James in 1911.

1911 Census For England & Wales
412 Brightside Lane, Sheffield, Yorkshire & Yorkshire (West Riding), England

Household members (7 people)
First name(s) Last name Relationship to head Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Henry Horsley Head
Married Male 61 1850 Carter Nottinghamshire
Fanny Horsley Wife
Married Female 58 1853 - Mortonley Yorkshire
John Sullivan Son
Single Male 32 1879 Smelter Chapeltown Yorkshire
Ellen Sullivan Daughter
Single Female 21 1890 - Sheffield Yorkshire
Henry Horsley Son
Single Male 16 1895 Metal spinner Sheffield Yorkshire
>>James Hill Boarder
Married Male 64 1847 Steel dresser Manchester Lancashire
George Watts Boarder
Married Male 40 1871 Steel dresser Glasgow Scotland

and a possible death in 1912 Sheffield.

alviegal, James on his own in 1911 ties in with the 1911 census I found of Eleanor Hill with 2 daughters, Edith Violet and Elizabeth Ethel. But that contradicts the possible name of Elizabeth for his wife.

Eleanor in the 1911 must be the right one, as the address is the same as on Edith Violet's marriage certificate.

James and Elizabeth and family in 1871:

James Hill
in the 1871 England Census
Name: James Hill
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: 1846
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Manchester
Civil parish: Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrew
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Manchester
Sub-registration district: London Road
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Household schedule number: 380
Piece: 4042
Folio: 125
Page number: 65
Household Members Age Relationship
James Hill 25 Head - iron dresser
Elizabeth Hill 25 Wife
William Hill 1 Son
Mary Jun Hill 4/12 Daughter

I have to admit - the Hill/Smith births are the only ones that fit for William and Mary Jane.


Dare I ask -
How do you know that Edith Violet and Elizabeth Ethel were Gertrude Blezard's sisters?