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My thanks to everyone for the enormous help you have given, towards unravelling this problem.

I imagine she was always known as that within the family.

She filled in the form herself in 1911.
Perhaps her husband provided the information for previous censuses and gave her proper name.
The individual household forms prior to 1911 were destroyed once the info was copied into the enumeration books which we see online, so we can't tell.

Shelly has just sent me copy of a death certificate for Elizabeth Hill, addressed to Mrs. Gertrude Blezard. If only we could find out why she called herself Eleanor in the 1911.

Perhaps it depends on what question was asked.

If "How old was he?", then the answer would be "Three". (Born 4th qr 1882)
If "When was he born?", and the answer was "1882", then the clerk may just have deducted 1882 from 1886 and assumed he was 4.

Possibly the death posted above. I have noticed there is sometimes a difference between age on Index and age on a burial record. The address fits the 1891 census

http://sheffieldindexers.com/BurialRecords (free site)

HILL, Herbert (Son of James Hill, age 4).

Died at 16 Fell St; Buried on March 25, 1886 in Consecrated ground;
Grave Number 52, Section U of Burngreave Cemetery, Sheffield.
Parent or Next of Kin if Available: . Remarks: 8875/17152.
Plot Owner: of . Page No

There appears to be 5 other children buried in the same grave

Herbert died 1886, as already posted, so doesn't appear on any census.

Deaths Mar 1886 (>99%)
Hill Herbert 3 Sheffield 9c 327

Herbert Baptism, image on FMP

First name(s) Herbert
Last name Hill
Birth year -
Baptism year 1882
Baptism date 27 Dec 1882
Baptism place Sheffield, St Philip
Denomination Anglican
Father's first name(s) James, occupation Iron Dresser
Father's last name -
Mother's first name(s) Elizabeth
Abode 15 Kelvin Street
County Yorkshire (West Riding)
Country England
Archive Sheffield Archives & Local Studies
Archive reference PR-10-3
Page 364
Record set Yorkshire Baptisms
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Baptisms
Collections from England, Great Britain

Unless there is only one Gertrude, and the one I found who died is indeed from a different family.

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
HILL, GERTRUDE CROPPER
GRO Reference: 1880 D Quarter in ECCLESALL BIERLOW Volume 09C

The 11 children i have found in various census returns with James and Elizabeth are:

William H 1870
James 1872-1873
Mary 1872
Eliza 1875
Joseph 1877
Walter 1879
Gertrude 1880-1881
Gertrude 1882
Arthur 1884
Edith 1886
Elizabeth 1891

I haven't found the Eccleshall Bierlow Herbert Cropper Hill so far.

A tree on ancestry has this for Elizabeth Cropper Smirh.


Elizabeth Cropper Smith
1849–

Birth APRIL 1849 • Manchester, Lancashire, England



Facts

1849(AGE)

Birth
April 1849 • Manchester, Lancashire, England

1850
Birth of brother William Cropper Smith(1850–1895)
abt 1850 • Manchester, Lancashire, England

18512
Residence
1851 • Manchester, Lancashire, England

Relation to Head of House: Daughter

18555
Birth of brother Joseph Smith(1855–)
1855 • Manchester, Lancashire, England

186112
Residence
1861 • Manchester, Lancashire, England

Relation to Head of House:Daughter

189546
Death of brother William Cropper Smith(1850–1895)
abt 1895


Parents

Mary Ann Kirven

1830–
James Cropper Smith

1825–


1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census
61, Primrose Street, Manchester, Lancashire, England
View original record
Household members (5 people)
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
James Coopper Smith Head
Married Male 26 1825 Fruiterer -Warrington
Mary Ann Smith Wife
Married Female 21 1830 Fruiterer Wigan, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Smith Daughter
- Female 2 1849 - Manchester, Lancashire, England
William Smith Son
- Male - - - Manchester, Lancashire, England
Francis Irving Sister-in-law
- Female 19 1832 Servant Manchester, Lancashire, England

There is this Gertrude born 1881 that is not with her family in 1891.

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census
593, Attercliffe Comn, Attercliffe cum Darnall, Sheffield,
Household members (3 people)
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Thomas Hill Head
Married Male 28 1853 Blacksmith Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, England
Nora Hill Wife
Married Female 25 1856 - Denby Dale, Yorkshire, England
Gertrude Hill Daughter
Single Female 1 1880 - Attercliffe, Yorkshire, England


1891
Thomas Hill Head
Married Male 38 1853 Blacksmith Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, England
Dora Hill Wife
Married Female 35 1856 - Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, England
Laura Hill Daughter
- Female 9 1882 Scholar Sheffield, Yorkshire, England
George A Hill Son
Single Male 6 1885 Scholar Sheffield, Yorkshire, England
Thomas Hardey Boarder
Single Male 31 1860 Blacksmith Newark, Nottinghamshire, England


HILL, GERTRUDE JACKSON
GRO Reference: 1880 J Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 588

HILL, LAURA JACKSON
GRO Reference: 1882 J Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 585



In 1881 your Gertrude is shown as being 5 months old so I don't think this would be her burial record. I think it is the child above.

National Burial Index For England & Wales
Sheffield, Yorkshire (West Riding), England
Transcript of Gertrude's record
First name(s) Gertrude
Church Attercliffe Christ Church
Last name Hill
Denomination Anglican
Birth year 1880
County Yorkshire (West Riding)
Age 17 mths
Country England
Death year 1881
Record set National Burial Index For England & Wales
Burial year 1881
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Burial date 02 Sep 1881
Subcategory Parish Burials
Place Sheffield
Collections from Great Britain, England

You have 1 death

HILL, GERTRUDE 1
GRO Reference: 1881 S Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 279


and another burial index.

National Burial Index For England & Wales
Sheffield, Yorkshire (West Riding), England
Transcript of Gertrude's record
First name(s) Gertrude
Church Attercliffe Municipal Cemetery
Last name Hill
County Yorkshire (West Riding)
Birth year 1880
Country England
Age 1
Record set National Burial Index For England & Wales
Death year 1881
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Burial year 1881
Subcategory Parish Burials
Burial date 31 Aug 1881
Collections from Great Britain, England

I wonder if these are the same baby girl but this should be her date of death and the top one is a burial date.


Then we have 9 year old Gertrude in this census.


1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Fell Street, Brightside Bierlow, Sheffield, Yorkshire & Yorkshire (West Riding), England

Household members (10 people)
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
James Hill Head
Married Male 43 1848 Iron dresser Manchester, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Hill Wife
Married Female 39 1852 - Manchester, Lancashire, England
William Hill Son
Married Male 21 1870 Hair dresser Manchester, Lancashire, England
Mary J Hill Daughter
Single Female 19 1872 General servant Manchester, Lancashire, England
Eliza Hill Daughter
Single Female 16 1875 Waitress Manchester, Lancashire, England
Joe Hill Son
- Male 14 1877 - Manchester, Lancashire, England
Walter Hill Son
- Male 12 1879 Scholar Manchester, Lancashire, England
Gertrude Hill Daughter
- Female 9 1882 Scholar Sheffield, Yorkshire, England
Arthur Hill Son
- Male 5 1886 Scholar Sheffield, Yorkshire, England
Edith Hill Daughter
- Female 4 1887 - Sheffield, Yorkshire, England

So if the number of children above is correct as per the 1911 Census, the living Gertrude is not included in the numbers

I am trying very hard to keep up with all this amazing information, thank you everyone for all you have done. If only Gertrude would put her head above the parapet, I do so want to find her birth record.

Though if mother Elizabeth is also Eleanor, I suppose Gertrude could also have another name.

alviegal, the 1880 Gertrude died in 1881.

HILL, ELIZABETH ETHEL mmn CROPPER
GRO Reference: 1891 S Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 554

???
HILL, EDITH mmn CROPPER
GRO Reference: 1887 M Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 477

???
HILL, GERTRUDE mmn CROPPER
GRO Reference: 1880 D Quarter in ECCLESALL BIERLOW Volume 09C Page 300

HILL, ARTHUR mmn CROPPER
GRO Reference: 1884 D Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 552

HILL, WILLIAM HENRY SMITH
GRO Reference: 1869 J Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 218

HILL, MARY JANE SMITH
GRO Reference: 1871 M Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 236

HILL, ELIZA SMITH
GRO Reference: 1874 S Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 234

???HILL, JAMES SMITH
GRO Reference: 1872 S Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 226


HILL, JOSEPH SMITH
GRO Reference: 1876 S Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 253

HILL, WALTER SMITH
GRO Reference: 1878 S Quarter in PRESTWICH Volume 08D Page 415

?? HILL, HERBERT CROPPER
GRO Reference: 1882 D Quarter in ECCLESALL BIERLOW Volume 09C Page 320


??? DEATH
HILL, JAMES 1
GRO Reference: 1873 S Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 177

HILL, HERBERT 3
GRO Reference: 1886 M Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 327


EDIT Have edited to keep everything together.

HILL, Herbert (Son of James Hill, age 4).
Died at 16 Fell St; Buried on March 25, 1886 in Consecrated ground;
Grave Number 52, Section U of Burngreave Cemetery, Sheffield.
Parent or Next of Kin if Available: . Remarks: 8875/17152.
Plot Owner: of . Page No

Janet -
1891 census already posted on 19 July at 12:14.


A 10th child was Herbert 1882-86 - details posted on 20th July at 12:56 and 13:26.

I found another tree on Ancestry which included James Hill/Elizabeth - when I checked it there was a note there from someone else as follows:

James Hill died 1900; Elizabeth (nee Cropper Smith) b1849 died 1925.

The person who added that note last signed in over a year ago, and the tree is locked.

1891 census:
Name James Hill
Gender Male
Age 43
Relationship Head
Birth Year 1848
Spouse Elizabeth Hill
Child William Hill; Mary J Hill; Eliza Hill; Joe Hill; Walter Hill; Gertrude Hill; Arthur Hill; Edith Hill

Gertrude's year of birth here implies 1882. Father's occupation Iron dresser.

8 of the 11 children? First Gertrude died 1881 = 9.

London Belle, I was working back from June 1921, but such advanced mathematics are very difficult for me.

Or would it be 1889 :-S

David Smith married Catherine Kerwin 1843 Liverpool. In the 1911, Eleanor gives her place of birth as Liverpool.

In the 1921 census, taken in June of that year, Gertrude's age is recorded as 32 years 7 months, which if I'm doing my sums correctly suggests 1888.