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Interestingly FMP has ticked this record as been looked at before !

20 Boswell Street, Liverpool, Liverpool C.B., Lancashire, England
1939 register badge
Household members (4 people)
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First name(s) Last name(s) Birth date Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule sub number
William Guther 02 Jul 1906 Male Contractor's Labourer Married 11 1
Harriet Guther 22 Jul 1904 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 11 2
The record for this person is officially closed.
The record for this person is officially closed.

Earlier threads:

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1365379

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1398474

Explains why Harriet record has been looked at before

possible 1st marriage for William Henry

Name: William Henry Shaw Carpet planner (as in 1911)
Gender: Male
Marriage Age: 26
Event Type: Marriage
Birth Year: abt 1867
Marriage Date: 13 Nov 1893
Marriage Place: Liverpool, St Nicholas, Lancashire, England
Parish as it Appears: Liverpool
Father: John Edward Shaw (deceased - occ fentiman ?)
Spouse: Martha Clare - widow
Father: Robert Woodier (not Goodier) builder

both living in Tithebarn Street Liverpool

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1890
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Year Church / Register Office
WOODIER Martha CLARE William J 1890 Shaw, Holy Trinity

1901 - living in Everton

John Fenlon 39
Eliza Fenlon 38
Adelaide Fenlon 16
Pency Fenlon 11
Reginald Fenlon 7
Elizabeth M Fenlon 4
William H Shaw 35 - born Manchester occ Carpet planner
Nancy Whittington 28
Robert H Whittington 9/12

Martha Woodier
Gender: Female
Marriage Age: 22
Event Type: Marriage
Birth Year: abt 1868
Marriage Date: 19 Jul 1890
Marriage Place: Shaw, Holy Trinity, Lancashire, England
Parish as it Appears: Crompton and Shaw
Search Photos: Search for 'Shaw, Holy Trinity' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Father: Robert Woodier
Spouse: William John Clare
Reference Number: GB127.L201/1/4/3

Possible death

Martha Shaw
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Death Registration Place: West Derby, Lancashire, United Kingdom
Death Date: Sep 1892
Inferred Death Place: Lancashire, United Kingdom
Volume: 8b
Page: 354



But doesn’t explain why William didn't remarry till 1909

he was certainly a confusing man!

Did he marry again perhaps after Martha’s death? On the 1901 census he describes himself as married.

Ok, so can I just check I have this right. Are we saying William Henry Shaw married Martha Woodier on 13.11.1893 and she was listed as a widow.
Her first marriage being on 19.7.1890 to William John Clare.

But then there is a possible death record for Martha Sept 1892, which of course wouldn't now tie in if she got remarried in 1893.

William later married Sarah Ann Challinor in 1909 but there is also the chance he could of been married in between these two also.
Many thanks all

:-S :-S :-S :-S

Burial of the Martha Shaw who died in 1892:

Martha Shaw
in the England & Scotland, Select Cemetery Registers, 1800-2016
Name: Martha Shaw
Age: 24
Record Type: Burial
Birth Date: abt 1868
Death Date: abt 1892
Burial Date: 5 Aug 1892
Burial Place: Merseyside, England
Cemetery: Kirkdale Cemetery

Address: 46 Connaught Road, West Derby.

Ancestry suggests she was Martha Higginbottom, who married Christopher John Shaw.

Christopher remarried in 1893, to Hetty Braddock.

In any case, your Martha would have been Martha Clare in 1892, not Martha Shaw.

Thank you. That clears that then

I don't see Martha's death before 1909 - assuming her age at death was stated correctly.

It's possible that she and William Henry separated, and she took up with some other man and used his name - though I don't see her in 1901 under any surname.

Presumably William believed her to have died before 1909 - but maybe he lied when he said he was a widower. He certainly lied in 1911 about length of marriage.

Thanks ever so much for checking for me. I guess it will forever be a mystery if lies were being told. Makes it so much trickier.

I still can't find any record of William Henry after 1921. His youngest son was Arthur Shaw born 1926 so I wonder if he is listed as still living with his father in 1939? Arthur's birth is listed on Freebmd 1926 West Derby. So he would of been abt 13 in 1939. :-S

On the 1921 census William Herny Shaw was living with his wife and children at 14 Mellor Street, Rose Vale, Liverpool.

I think William Henry must of died between 1926 and 1946 (his last son's birth year and when he is listed as deceased on another son's wedding certificate) But with him often lying about his birth year I do hold out much hope really.

looking for him on ancestry this hint came up

Name: Arthur Shaw
Death Age: 12
Birth Date: abt 1926
Registration Date: Jul 1938
[Aug 1938]
[Sep 1938]
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration District: Salford
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8d
Page: 278

possible?
Name: William Henry Shaw
Age: 58
Record Type: Burial
Birth Date: abt 1870
Death Date: abt 1928
Burial Date: 25 Jan 1928
Burial Place: Merseyside, England
Cemetery: Anfield Cemetery
Cemetery Section: Church of England

Yes, I've been wondering about this death, which would match that burial.


SHAW, WILLIAM HENRY 58
GRO Reference: 1928 M Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 384


There's certainly no sign of either Arthur or William in 1939 - as far as one can tell, given William's indecisiveness about his age.

Thank you both very much, I've just seen this 1939 record but can't view it. Does anyone know what inferred spouse means? Many thanks

Name William H Shaw
Gender gender
Marital Status Marital Status
Birth Date dd mm 1872
Residence Date1939 Address location
Residence Place township, Lancashire, England
Occupation Occupation Line
Number Line Number Schedule
Number Sub Schedule Number Sub Schedule Number Enumeration District
Enumeration
District Borough township
Inferred Spouse Sarah A Shaw
Household members

Without proof they cannot categorially state that a married woman of the same surname is the actual wife of the head of the household - a married man.

On I see thankyou. I should think not considering Sarah Ann died in 1934.
Thanks again