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I'm not quite sure why you're thanking me Deborah, I think I've just confused everyone even more :-D :-D

On familysearch, you can see John's death certificate. He was born Mar 1884 in NZ and was a miner. He died at Loch Lomond, Fort William, Thunder Bay. His father was John Engstrom.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J679-5LN

You haven't confused anyone alviegal, this whole scenario is confusing, I am just glad for the help. Its a can of worms xx

Ah now this is interesting. Again Maddie found this:

Name: Mary Engstrom
Electoral Year: 1900
District: Dunedin
Region or Province: Otago
image says mary hannah a general dealer
address wakker street


Evening Star 7 September 1900 Page 2

"For allowing the chimney of his premises in Walker Street to catch fire, John Engstrom was similarly fined."


Otago Daily Times 9 August 1900

So basically a man was accused of stealing a screw driver off John Engstrom along with other tools from other people. He then stupidly offered the tools to "Mrs Engstrom who kept a shop in Walker Street." she recognised the screw driver and called the police.


Could this be his death? Would explain him also being called Gus.

1931/4698 Engstrom John Gustaf 73Y

I've actually been looking at him quite a lot. He married in 1901.

Name: John Gustaf Engstrom
Gender: Male
Marriage Year: 1901
Marriage Place: New Zealand
Spouse: Margaret McLaren Sutherland
Relation: Bridegroom
Folio Number: 4116


Name: John Gustaff Engstrom
Birth Date: 1858
Death Date: 13 May 1931
Cemetery: Southern Cemetery
Burial or Cremation Place: Dunedin, Dunedin City, Otago, New Zealand
Has Bio?: N
URL:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/221415280/john-gustaff-engstrom

That is interesting.

On Ancestry:

John Engstrom
in the Ontario, Canada, Deaths and Deaths Overseas, 1869-1948
Name: John Engstrom
Gender: Male
Age: 25
Birth Date: abt 1884 [ March 1884 on image ]
Birth Place: Nzl
Death Date: 6 Jul 1909
Death Place: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada
Cause of Death: Septic Philebitis


Place of death: Loch Lomond
Occupation: Miner
Single
Father: John Engstrom
Mother's name, and birthplaces of both parents, left blank.
Physician who attended: Dr J E Martin.
Certified by: Thomas Engstrom, Fort William

Dr Martin attended the patient from June 27th to July 5th.
Cause of death: Septic Philebitis [ sic ], 1 month, and Septicmenia [ presumably Septicemia ], 5 days



John Henry Duckett
in the New Zealand, Birth Index, 1840-1950
Name: John Henry Duckett
Birth Date: Jan-Feb-Mar 1883
Registration Place: Dunedin, New Zealand
Folio Number: 919

John Engstrom
in the U.S., Border Crossings from Canada to U.S., 1895-1960
Name: John Engstrom
Gender: Male
Race/Nationality: English
Age: 25
Record Type: Manifests
Birth Date: abt 1882
Birth Country: New Zealand
Arrival Date: Nov 1907
Port of Arrival: Duluth, Minnesota, USA
Residence Country: USA
Line Number: 12

Occupation: miner.
Going to: Hancock, Michigan.
Relative in country from whence came: Sister - Mrs Cross, Wellington, NZ

~Re the record posted first by Maddie and then by Alviegal, of William John Cross with his parents, arriving in Canada in 1913 -


They weren't going to Ms A M Judd.

The name of the relative in the country they'd come from was Mrs A S Judd, Mann** [Manner? Mannro ?? ] Street, Wellington, NZ.

Their final intended destination was Seattle.

"Mrs A S Judd" ???

Stephen Alfred Judd
in the New Zealand, Marriage Index, 1840-1937
Name: Stephen Alfred Judd
Gender: Male
Marriage Year: 1895
Marriage Place: New Zealand
Spouse: Hannah Duckett <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Relation: Bridegroom
Folio Number: 2460


Stephen Alfd Judd
in the New Zealand, City & Area Directories, 1866-1954
Name: Stephen Alfd Judd
Year: 1910
Residence: Wellington, Wellington, New Zealand
Address: Vogeltown.
Occupation: Fancy goods.


Stephen Alfred Judd
in the Australia and New Zealand, Find a Grave Index, 1800s-Current
Name: Stephen Alfred Judd
Gender: M (Male)
Death Date: 22 Nov 1918
Death Place: Wellington, New Zealand
Cemetery: Karori Cemetery and Crematorium
Burial or Cremation Place: Wellington, Wellington City, Wellington, New Zealand

Died in influenza pandemic, aged 44 years.

Photo of gravestone - I can't make out what it says:

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/194930625/stephen-alfred-judd


Stephen Alfred Judd
in the New Zealand, Notices of Deceased Estates, 1880-1950
Name: Stephen Alfred Judd [ Retired jeweller ]
Death Date: 18 Nov 1918
Residence: Wellington, New Zealand

Died intestate.


Stephen Alfred Judd
in the New Zealand, Death Index, 1848-1966
Name: Stephen Alfred Judd
Death Date: Oct-Nov-Dec 1918
Registration Place: Waverley, Wellington, New Zealand
Folio Number: 3963



Stephen Alfred Judd
in the New Zealand, World War I Army Reserve Rolls, 1916-1917
Name: Stephen Alfred Judd
Residence : Vogeltown [ Wellington ]
Year: 1917
Reserve Roll: 2nd Division
Occupation: Jewellery and novelty importer.

His wife:

Hannah Duckett
in the New Zealand, Birth Index, 1840-1950
Name: Hannah Duckett
Birth Date: Jan-Feb-Mar 1877
Registration Place: Port Chalmers, New Zealand
Folio Number: 816



Hannah Judd
in the New Zealand, Cemetery Records, 1800-2007
Name: Hannah Judd
Death Age: 85
Birth Date: abt 1877
Death Date: 29 Oct 1962
Cremation Date: 30 Oct 1962
Cemetery: Waikumete [ Plot 14 ]
Burial Place: Auckland

Address: 106 Fowlds Avenue, Sandringham.
Widow.


"In loving memory of Hannah , loved wife of Stephen Alfred Judd, died 29 October 1962"

Thank you so much for all this extra information. xx

The Evening Star MONDAY, FEBRUARY 20, 1888.
At Port Chalmers Police court, Mary Duckett was charged with using insulting language to Susanna Azerotto on 15th Feb. Evidence was "of a very conflicting nature". It was concluded that the cause was Mary's "interference of the children of the complainant when going to school". She was fined 10s, and her answering complaint against the other woman was dismissed.


The Evening Star MONDAY, JULY 1, 1889.
At Port Chalmers Police Court, Mary Duckett was charged with using "indecent and insulting language" towards Annie Mellish, and insulting language towards Ellen Grey. Because it wasn't her first offence for a similar thing, she was fined 20s, and 7s costs.


Re the 1889 court case against John Duckett for neglecting his children, which was posted earlier -
The case was adjourned "to allow the parties to come to an amicable settlement."

The newspapers make very interesting reading, bit like the information you sent me about the school, you can almost imagine it all in your minds eye.

Evening Star, Issue 8899, 9 August 1892, Page 2

Marriage -
On 9th inst, at Dunedin, Thorvald Holan, eldest son of Hannah Holan, to Rosina Polson, eldest daughter of Mrs Duckett.




Tuapeka Times, Issue 1289, 6 October 1886, Page 3
From our own correspondent, Dunedin.
At the Supreme Court, "John Duckett, charged with rape on his step-daughter, aged 11, was found not guilty and discharged."

Mount Ida Chronicle, Volume XVI, Issue 879, 12 August 1886, Page 3
"An elderly man at Port Chalmers, named John Duckett , was yesterday committed for trial for indecent assault on his step-daughter, some 10 or 12 years of age."

(I think the above was posted earlier.)


Otago Daily Times, Issue 7161, 28 January 1885, Page 3
At Port Chalmers Police Court,
a Mrs Harkness said that a Chinese hawker had called at her house, wanting her to buy a skirt. A dispute arose and he'd threatened her and called her "an Irish pig".
He said that she'd invited him into the house because she wanted to buy the skirt, but was unwilling to pay the balance of the cost, and had torn the skirt, thrown it at him, and chased him out of the house with a broom and a chair, and had called him a "___ Chinaman".
J Duckett said he'd seen the Chinaman running away, and that Mrs Harkness seemed to have thrown something at him.
The opinion of a member of the Bench was that this witness's statement "was not to be relied upon", but another member thought the evidence had been given in a straightforward manner.
Mary A Duckett said that Mrs Harkness had thrown the skirt at the Chinaman's head outside her house.
Case dismissed, with both parties ordered to pay their own costs.

This would make a good book ArgyllGran, I shouldn't laugh!!, but I am serious, you couldn't make it up.

Evening Star, Issue 8468, 19 March 1891, Page 2
John Duckett of South Dunedin failed to appear in court where he was charged with failing to pay 6s maintenance of daughter Hilda Duckett at the Industrial School.
The defendant was a baker, but latterly had been working as a fisherman and labourer. "If he would only knock off drinking he could earn a good living."



North Otago Times, Volume XXXVI, Issue 7404, 2 July 1892, Page 2

John Duckett was charged with failing to support his child "Hildegrade" Duckett, in the Industrial School , Caversham.
John Duckett of Maheno, formerly of South Dunedin, said the child - a daughter - was about 6 years of age, and was committed on the 19th March 1891.
He had 5 others committed on the same day, and was chargeable with 6s, or 1s, each per week for their maintenance.
As Hildegrade was a girl, 6s was chargeable on her account.
Defendant said he had no money, and couldn't pay.
Case dismissed, and papers sent back to Dunedin for correction.



Southland Times, Issue 9270, 15 July 1886, Page 3
MISSING FRIEND.
If Mr William Williams will call at the London Hotel within a day or two he will find, or hear of, his brother-in-law Mr John Duckett.



Endless fascinating stuff in the newspapers!

Yes, and also you are connecting the dots, thank you so much.

Ah you've been busy AG. I gave the link to the papers so Deborah could have a look at all the articles.

As for John Engstrom, he was a carpenter and John Gustaf Engstrom was also a carpenter who had been in NZ for around 50 years when he died.

He and Mary appear to have been together for a number of years, maybe on and off, who knows but if she was married to John Duckett she could not marry J E. If she emigrated in 1900 for whatever reason, he was free to marry in 1901.

John Duckett was also charged with insulting Susan Azzaretti.


Evening Star 28 November 1888 Page 2

At the Port Chalmers Police Court this morning John Duckett for using insulting language towards Susan Azzaretti (for whom Mr Platts appeared) on the 24th inst. was fined 10s and costs, or 7 days imprisonment.