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And 1861 census
Mary Hannah Williams
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: 1851
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Edward Williams
Mother's Name: Hannah Williams
Gender: Female
Where born: Crowan
Civil Parish: Crowan
County/Island: Cornwall
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration District: Helston
Sub-registration District: Crowan
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Schedule Number: 60
Piece: 1575
Folio: 80
Page Number: 12
Household Members:
Name Age
Edward Williams 45
Hannah Williams 37
Mary Hannah Williams 10
Ann Williams 9
Elizabeth Williams 8
Martha Williams 5
Grace Williams 4

Got to leave the computer for an hour, what a muddle, still cant work out where or even if Thomas Engstrom fits in, the man she apparently married in Seattle, and by whom she had 2 children, Mary and Thomas.

Parents still in uk in 1871

Edward Williams
Age: 55
Estimated Birth Year: 1816
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Crowan, Cornwall, England
Civil parish: Crowan
County/Island: Cornwall
Country: England
Registration district: Helston
Sub-registration district: Crowan
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Household schedule number: 26
Piece: 2310
Folio: 19
Page number: 8
Household Members Age Relationship
Edward Williams 55 Head
Hannah Williams
48 Wife
Martha Williams
15 Daughter
Edward Williams
6 Son

Was trying to find a John hart Williams with the family but nothing shows

According to a tree on Ancestry (and the 1920 census) , the daughter Hildegard emigrated in 1902 - but I can't see a travel record:

Hilda Marks
in the 1920 United States Federal Census
Name: Hilda Marks [Kioda Marks]
Age: 39
Birth Year: abt 1881
Birthplace: New Zealand
Home in 1920: Minneapolis Ward 12, Hennepin, Minnesota
Street: 38th Avenue South
Residence Date: 1920
Race: White
Gender: Female
Immigration Year: 1902
Relation to Head of House: Wife
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Joseph Marks
Father's Birthplace: New Zealand
Mother's Birthplace: New Zealand
Able to Speak English: Yes
Naturalization Status: Naturalized
Able to read: Yes
Able to Write: Yes
Neighbors:
Household Members Age Relationship
Joseph Marks 39 Head
Hilda Marks 39 Wife
Joseph Marks 13 Son
Chester R Marks 11 Son
Douglas G Marks 6 Son
Jessie M Marks 5 Daughter
Thomas F Marks 2 Son
Lenard T Marks 0 Son


Hildegarde Marks
in the Minnesota, U.S., Death Index, 1908-2017
Name: Hildegarde Marks
Death Age: 88
Record Type: Death
Birth Date: 22 Mar 1886
Death Date: 8 Jul 1974
Death Place: Hennepin
Death Registration Date: 1974
Mother's Maiden Name: Williams
Certificate Number: 018862
Record Number: 1917947

Yes I did see that one ArgyllGran, thank you, this is all seeming a bit difficult to piece together. Cant seem to fit the name Thomas Engstrom in either. He was the man who Mary supposedly married after John Henry Duckett, couldn't find that marriage.

Sarah Jane's marriage:

Sarah Duckett
in the Michigan, U.S., Marriage Records, 1867-1952
Name: Sarah Duckett
Gender: Female
Race: White
Age: 18
Birth Date: abt 1885
Birth Place: Dunedin New Zeland
Marriage Date: 22 Jun 1903
Marriage Place: Greenland, Ontonagon, Michigan, USA
Residence Place: Greenland, Michigan
Father: John Henry [ Duckett - on image but not transcribed]
Mother: Mary H Williams
Spouse: Albert Kinsman <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Record Number: 598

Right....... so that's where the name Kinsman comes from, thank you ArgyllGran.

Shirley posted the travel records for Sarah, Thomas, and William James, arriving in Boston on 11 July 1902 on the "Commonwealth".

Here's Hildegard on the same voyage:

Hildar Duckett
in the Massachusetts, U.S., Arriving Passenger and Crew Lists, 1820-1963
Name: Hildar Duckett
Gender: Female
Age: 16
Birth Date: abt 1886
Departure Place: Liverpool, England
Arrival Date: 11 Jul 1902
Arrival Place: Boston, Massachusetts, USA
Last Residence: New York
Friend: Jno Hart Williams
Ship: Commonwealth


Birthplace: New Zealand.
Last residence: Dunedin
Destination: Hancock, Michigan.

Don't know why she's listed separately from the others.
There's a note against her entry to say "See B1-2; A30" which refers to the entries for the others. William James is on page A, line 30, and the other two are the first two entries on the next page.

Strange, anyway, thankyou ArgyllGran.

I can still find no mention of Mary Duckett marrying a Thomas Engstrom, I think I will give that one up as a red herring.

There's no record of John and Mary ever going to the USA, let alone John dying there, or Mary remarrying.

That's exactly what I came up with, thank you ArgyllGran for checking it for me, I really appreciate it. xx

Thank you for all your help once again, I will make up a little tree on Ancestry for my Cousin's friend so she can view it all herself. xx

North Otago Times. PUBLISHED EVERY MORNING. SATURDAY, JULY 2, 1892.

A few articles on the fact he had his 6 children committed to the Caversham Industrial School in Mar 1891. He was specifically charged with not supporting his child, Hildegard Duckett aged about 6. He said he had no money to support them.

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers?items_per_page=10&query=%22john+Duckett%22&snippet=true

If you click onto Title then put the region Otega, you will get local papers.

Perhaps the children were sent away in 1902 in hopes of a better life, once they were old enough to work, but their parents remained in NZ.

Just speculation!

Possible children. Parents' names are at the end.

1876/13978 Duckett Julia Mary Ann John

1877/3242 Duckett Hannah Mary Hannah John

1883/553 Duckett John Henry Mary Hannah John

1884/16181 Duckett Sarah Jane Mary Hannah John

1886/8706 Duckett Hildeguard Mary Hannah John

1888/6126 Duckett Emanuel Thomas Mary Hannah John


Possible death of John Duckett?

1913/9654 Duckett John 78Y

Some trees on Ancestry ( I haven't checked all 33 trees) don't list Julia, but do list a Ruth Ducket - with no DOB or proof.

Also a half sister Rosemary Cross - married surname (supposedly born 1875 NZ), whose parents are said to be Gus ENGSTROM and Mary Hannah Williams.

This is offered as "proof":

Rose Cross
in the 1920 United States Federal Census
Name: Rose Cross [Rose Engstrom]
Age: 45
Birth Year: abt 1875
Birthplace: New Zealand
Home in 1920: Tacoma Ward 2, Pierce, Washington
Street: Cliff Avenue
Residence Date: 1920
Race: White
Gender: Female
Immigration Year: 1913
Relation to Head of House: Wife
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Joseph Cross
Father's Birthplace: Sweden
Mother's Name: Mary Engstrom
Mother's Birthplace: England
Native Tongue: English
Able to Speak English: Yes
Naturalization Status: Alien
Able to read: Yes
Able to Write: Yes
Neighbors:
Household Members Age Relationship
Joseph Cross 47 Head - Wales
Rose Cross 45 Wife
William J Cross 18 Son - New Zealand
Mary Engstrom 64 Mother-in-law , widow, England

the Cross family arrived in the USA in 1913.
The year of Mary Engstrom's immigration is unclear - 1900? 1920?

Mary couldn't read or write. Both her parents born in England.

A tree on ancestry has this for Mary Hannah.


Parents

William Williams
Mary Hart Jeffery

Spouse & Children

John D Duckett

1840–
Julia Mary Duckett

1876–
Hannah(Anna) Duckett

1877–
Rebecca (Ruth) Duckett

1878–
William James Duckett

1880–
John Henry Duckett

1883–
Sarah Jane Duckett

1884–
Hildeguard Duckett

1886–
Emmanuel Thomas Duckett

1888–

Another has this as her death but no proof of it.

Death of mother Mary Hannah Williams(1850–1916)
Feb 1916 • New Zealand

EDIT:

NO, in light of later posts, this girl isn't Rose Cross.

____________________
Re Rose Cross - who I think is a red herring (but I suppose it's not impossible that she was born before Mary's marriage to John in 1875) -

???

Rose Ann Williams
in the New Zealand, Birth Index, 1840-1950
Name: Rose Ann Williams
Birth Date: Jan-Feb-Mar 1875
Registration Place: Dunedin, New Zealand
Folio Number: 392


Rose Hannah Williams
in the Australia and New Zealand, Find a Grave Index, 1800s-Current
Name: Rose Hannah Williams
Birth Date: 1875
Death Date: 11 Jul 1890
Cemetery: Southern Cemetery
Burial or Cremation Place: Dunedin, Dunedin City, Otago, New Zealand



Rose Hannah Williams
in the New Zealand, Cemetery Records, 1800-2007
Name: Rose Hannah Williams
Death Age: 15
Birth Date: abt 1875
Death Date: 11 Jul 1890
Burial Date: 13 Jul 1890
Cemetery: Southern
Burial Place: Otago

Resident of Caversham. Born Otago.
She's not buried with any other Williamses.