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Thank you, I realise this now. It's so easy to go off track, so thanks once again for your help

This may go some way towards explaining the surname recorded on 1851 census - although I'm clutching at straws, tbh

West Yorkshire, England, Select Land Tax Records, 1704-1932
Occupier Name: John Holden
Residence Year: 1795
Residence Place: Grindleton, Yorkshire, England
Owner Name: John Whitaker
Division: Staincliffe

Several more for various years..............

"Margaret remained unmarried."
No, she married James Tomlinson in 1852, as posted earlier.

HOLDEN, DOROTHY (MMN) PLACE
GRO Reference: 1843 J Quarter in CLITHEROE UNION Volume 21 Page 386

But there were 2 in Clitheroe - How do we differentiate which birth certificate is the right one as the op did not have any definite parentage or family - just supposition

If Alice married a marriage certificate might help. I assume she did marry as there is no death for Alice Holden in 1922 b 1846

Births Mar 1846 (>99%)
HOLDEN Alice Clitheroe 21 445

Births Jun 1846 (>99%)
Holden Alice Clitheroe 21 466

The one in the June quarter is probably the right one - Ref. 21 466.

We know that Alice was illegitimate.

Erika has posted the birth from LancsBMD, showing that the mms was Holden, meaning that the mother wasn't married.
Unfortunately that one isn't showing on the GRO website for some reason.

The other birth had mms Wells:

HOLDEN, ALICE mms WELLS
GRO Reference: 1846 M Quarter in CLITHEROE UNION Volume 21 Page 445


Parents' marriage:

Marriages Sep 1839 (>99%)
HOLDEN Thomas Clitheroe 21 215
WELLS Margaret Clitheroe 21 215


Hmmm, yes, I see what you mean!

Only one of the Alices seems to show up definitely in censuses, and I can't see Thomas and Margaret.

I was just working on the fact that the OP only THINKS Alice's mother was Margaret and she was illegitimate

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1839
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Year Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
WELLS Margaret PARKER Robert 1839 Ribble Register Office or Registrar Attended Preston R/1/32


HOLDEN Thomas WHALLEY Julian 1839 Ribble Register Office or Registrar Attended Preston R/1/31

Don't think the OP had even considered that Alice was illegitimate - she merely said she couldn't find the father's name

Freebmd which has been quoted above as being relevant to the Holden/Wells birth

Marriages Sep 1839 (>99%)
BLEASDALE Alice Clitheroe 21 215 Scan available - click to view
DILWORTH Richard Clitheroe 21 215 Scan available - click to view
HOLDEN Thomas Clitheroe 21 215 Scan available - click to view
PARKER Robert Clitheroe 21 215 Scan available - click to view
PARKER Roger Clitheroe 21 215 Scan available - click to view
WELLS Margaret Clitheroe 21 215 Scan available - click to view
WHALLEY Julian Clitheroe 21 215

Thanks for correction re 1839 marriages, Erika.

So if Dorothy is correct in thinking that Alice's mother was Margaret, then the illegitimate one seems to be the only possibility.

No probs - Lancs BMD is free - and invaluable

HOLDEN Robert WELLS 1840 Chipping Preston CH/1/68

HOLDEN John WELLS 1842 Chipping Preston CH/2/11

HOLDEN Henry WELLS 1844 Chipping Preston CH/2/64

Wondering about this......

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Bailey Green, Mitton, Clitheroe, Yorkshire & Lancashire, England

Henry Holden Male 50 1791 Lancashire, England
Mary Holden Female 30 1811 Lancashire, England
Ellen Holden Female 4 1837 Lancashire, England
James Holden Male 3 1838 Lancashire, England
Robert Holden Male 1 1840 Lancashire, England
Wilfrid Wells Male 10 1831 Lancashire, England
Jane Wells Female 8 1833 Lancashire, England

YES............

HOLDEN James WELDS 1838 Chipping Preston CH/1/19

Marriage: 11 Jul 1836 All Hallows, Mitton, Lancashire, England
Henry Holden - (X), Mitton
Mary Welds - (X), Mitton
Witness: Jacob Bertwell; Ann Welds, (X)
Married by Banns by: John Wilson, Vicar
Register: Marriages 1813 - 1837, Page 136, Entry 409
Source: LDS Film 919152

ErikaH you are wonderful. I sent off for a birth certificate for Alice Holden and it came back as Alice born 18th March 1846, Chipping , Clitheroe. Mother Mary Holden formerly Wells, Father Henry, occupation Weaver.
So your last post the 1841 census showing Henry and Mary with 5 children up to 1840, I then assume Alice being born to Mary in 1846.
The marriage post confirms this is the right family.
This is fantastic, I never thought I would find this family, my relatives will be over the moon.

Thank you all so much, you all have been so helpful as usual and I'm sorry for giving duff information at the beginning, please forgive me. Will try harder next time.
Thanks again one and all.

So pleased that it seems to have all come right in the end

Using https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/local_bmd
in particular: http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/
[NB Warrington + bits of S Manchester are in Cheshire and Furness is in Cumbria]

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1839
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Year Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
DILWORTH Richard CLARKE Ann 1839 Ribble Register Office or Registrar Attended Preston R/1/34
PARKER Robert WELLS Margaret 1839 Ribble Register Office or Registrar Attended Preston R/1/32
PARKER Roger BLEASDALE Alice 1839 Ribble Register Office or Registrar Attended Preston R/1/33
HOLDEN Thomas WHALLEY Julian 1839 Ribble Register Office or Registrar Attended Preston R/1/31

The local ref usually has 3 parts:
1) A code for the name of the church (or else the registrar's rego) for marrs.
A code for the subdistrict where a b or d occured. Sometimes they are decoded as here - the subdistricts can usually be guessed from the code.
2) A sequence number for the rego (sequenced within the code)
3) An entry or else a page number. Marrs usually have an entry number, so by matching entry numbers, one knows who wed whom.
For local rego's, there were 2 marr entries per page, and 5 b or d entries per page.




Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1852
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Year Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
HOLDEN Margaret TOMLINSON James 1852 Clitheroe, St Mary Magdalene Preston C3/2/121

Using that info, it's easy to find Maddie's banns/marr transcriptions at:
https://www.lan-opc.org.uk/

Plus:
Baptism: 15 Aug 1852 St Mary Magdalene, Clitheroe, Lancashire, England
Edmund Tomlinson - [Child] of James Tomlinson & Margaret
Born: 9 Jul 1852
Abode: Clitheroe
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: J H Anderton
Register: Baptims 1841 - 1860, Page 120, Entry 955
Source: LDS File 1278858

Baptism: 7 May 1854 St Mary Magdalene, Clitheroe, Lancashire, England
Mary Ann Tomlinson - [Child] of James Tomlinson & Margaret
Born: 9 Apr 1854
Abode: Clitheroe
Occupation: Weaver
Baptised by: J H Anderton
Register: Baptims 1841 - 1860, Page 138, Entry 1103
Source: LDS File 1278858

Baptism: 8 Feb 1857 St Mary Magdalene, Clitheroe, Lancashire, England
Dinah Tomlinson - [Child] of James Tomlinson & Margaret
Born: 14 Dec 1856
Abode: Clitheroe
Occupation: Weaver
Baptised by: J H Anderton
Register: Baptims 1841 - 1860, Page 162, Entry 1293
Source: LDS File 1278858



Lancashire Birth indexes for the years:
Surname Forename(s) Mother's Maiden Name Year Sub-District Registers At Reference
TOMLINSON Edmund HOLDEN 1852 Clitheroe Preston CL/9/81
TOMLINSON Mary Ann HOLDEN 1854 Clitheroe Preston CL/10/98
TOMLINSON Dinah HOLDEN 1856 Clitheroe Preston CL/12/59
TOMLINSON Peggy HOLDEN 1859 Clitheroe Preston CL/14/30
TOMLINSON Dinah HOLDEN 1862 Clitheroe Preston CL/16/10

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Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years:
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Year Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
HOLDEN Alice FIELDING Giles 1863 Clitheroe, St Mary Magdalene Preston C3/3/6
FIELDING Alice WHITEHEAD Edward 1874 Clitheroe, St Mary Magdalene Preston C3/3/327

Marriage: 2 May 1863 St Mary Magdalene, Clitheroe, Lancashire, England
Giles Fielding - 27 Weaver Bachelor of Clitheroe
Alice Holden - (X), 18 Carder Spinster of Clitheroe
Groom's Father: Henry Fielding, Labourer
Bride's Father: Robert Pearson, Wheelwright
Witness: John Garner, (X); Robert Heath
Married by Banns by: J H Anderton
Register: Marriages 1862 - 1882, Page 3, Entry 6
Source: LDS Film 1278858

Marriage: 10 Oct 1874 St Mary Magdalene, Clitheroe, Lancashire, England
Edward Whitehead - (X), 42 Spinner Bachelor of Clitheroe
Alice Fielding - (X), 30 Rover Widow of Clitheroe
Groom's Father: Henry Hanson, Quarryman
Bride's Father: James Tomlinson, Weaver
Witness: William Parkinson; Mary Anne Tomlinson, (X)
Married by Banns by: J H Anderton
Register: Marriages 1862 - 1882, Page 164, Entry 327
Source: LDS Film 1278858

Not that my opinion really matters, but I am inclined to believe Alice's stated parentage.
Both my dad's grans were illegitimate, and one has a named father on her d.cert which I later found matched her bp record,
and the other named a father on her m.cert, which matched the record FS calls a baptiem - actually, it's a record of her presentation to the congregation, although it does mentiona private baptism 11 months earlier.

A pic
https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2435161
SD7442 : St Mary's church, Clitheroe
Subject Location SD 7443 4204 [10m precision]

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Births Mar 1846 (>99%)
HOLDEN Alice Clitheroe 21 445 Scan available - click to view
Births Jun 1846 (>99%)
Holden Alice Clitheroe 21 466

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1846
Surname Forename(s) Mother's Maiden Name Year Sub-District Registers At Reference
HOLDEN Alice HOLDEN 1846 Clitheroe Preston CL/5/60
HOLDEN Alice WELLS 1846 Chipping Preston CH/3/15

Sometimes one wanys to match these two sources up

Take the FreeBMD hits and click on the page numbers aand note the sets of (typically) 10 names.
Look up a few at LancsBMD and note the local ref - appended to the FreeBMD record below.
Since the GRO pages start at the first entry of a quarter, they don't necessarily match up with the local page boundaries, the 10 names on a GRO b/d page can span 3 local pages (or 10 local entries).
[NB LancsBMD indexes by year of birth rather than year of registration - Xmas births are often rego'ed in the following year]

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Births Mar 1846 (>99%)
BAILEY Martin Clitheroe 21 445 CH/3/15
Bradley Mary Alice Clitheroe 21 445 CH/3/15
HOLDEN Alice Clitheroe 21 445

Births Jun 1846 (>99%)
Barton Susannah Clitheroe 21 466 CL/5/59
Bennett Mary Ann Clitheroe 21 466 CL/5/59
Briggs Elizabeth Clitheroe 21 466 CL/5/60
Holden Alice Clitheroe 21 466

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Here's an example where knowing the subdistrict sorted out 2 families

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years:
Surname Forename(s) Mother's Maiden Name Year Sub-District Registers At Reference
HINDLEY Annie ATHERTON 1895 Aspull Wigan & Leigh ASPL/50/165
HINDLEY Edith ATHERTON 1896 Aspull Wigan & Leigh ASPL/51/384
HINDLEY Lena ATHERTON 1902 Wigan Wigan & Leigh WIG/228/240
HINDLEY Doris ATHERTON 1902 Aspull Wigan & Leigh ASPL/57/80
HINDLEY Evelyn ATHERTON 1903 Wigan Wigan & Leigh WIG/235/193
HINDLEY Harry ATHERTON 1904 Hindley Wigan & Leigh HNDL/157/207
HINDLEY Norman Atherton ATHERTON 1907 Hindley Wigan & Leigh HNDL/168/194

Births Jun 1902 (>99%)
Hindley Lena Wigan 8c 48
Births Sep 1902 (>99%)
Hindley Doris Wigan 8c 21
Births Dec 1903 (>99%)
HINDLEY Evelyn Wigan 8c 52

Lppking at the first 5 births, it's clear we have 2 families - one in Aspull, and one in Wigan.
The last 2 births were actually in Ince - a suburb of Wigan, but other parts of Hindley subdistrict are equi-distant from Aspull and Wigan.
However, Evelyn's death shows the Wigan family had moved to Hindley, so we can link these 2 births with Lena's Wigan birth.

Deaths Sep 1904 (>99%)
Hindley Evelyn 0 Wigan 8c 80

Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1904
Surname Forename(s) Age or Date of Birth Year Sub-District Registers At Reference
HINDLEY Evelyn 0 1904 Hindley Wigan & Leigh HNDL/88/267

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If one clicks on the "Clitheroe" link in Erika's FreeBMD hit:

Births Jun 1846 (>99%)
Holden Alice Clitheroe 21 466

then on the more info "here" link, one gets:


CLITHEROE REGISTRATION DISTRICT
Registration County : Lancashire.
Created : 1.7.1837.
Abolished : 1.4.1974 (to become part of Ribble Valley registration district).
Sub-districts : Chipping, Clitheroe, Gisbury, Slaidburne, Whalley.
GRO volumes : XXI (1837-51), 8e (1852-1946), 10C (1946-74).
Registers currently held at : Lancashire.

The Yorkshire parishes like Grindleton, Gisbury, Slaidburne were transferred to Settle RD in 1937q2.
In 1947q1. Settle RD (also Skipton RD) were abolished,amd Ewecross RD was formed out of Settle and parts of Skipton RDs.
In 1974q2, the Yorks-Lancs bounary was changed and the Yorkshire parishes like Grindleton, Gisbury, Slaidburne were transferred to Lancs, and put in the Ribble Valley RD along with the rest of Clitheroe RD.
In 2005q2, Ribble Valley RD was abolished, and it became part of Lancashire RD.