Find Ancestors

If the child Arthur Lewis Randall (mms Rowe whose birth and death in 4th qr 1870 I posted earlier, is a brother, then Minnie's DOB can't be entirely correct.

Perhaps it should be 1868 or 1869, which is what most of the censuses say.

Her birth seems not to have been registered.

Have only just logged on today...Amazed at what you have found....occupation of glass blower rang a bell with William Richard on 1939 census when he was in prison
not sure what all this means...did she marry William Clark? what about Albert?

Can't see any marriage of William and Minnie.
That might (or might not) mean that one of them was still married to someone else.

Can't see any conclusive death of Albert - but it's a very common name.

Albert's certainly very elusive.
On page 2 of this thread, Erika seems to have found his birth - posting again here for ease:

READ, ALBERT GEORGE mms OLIVER
GRO Reference: 1872 S Quarter in GREENWICH Volume 01D Page 837

But he disappears after his marriage - or at least after 1896, which would be the conception of the daughter Susan Emily born 1897.

Son Albert calls him Herbert Henry on his army record - but maybe he wasn't sure of his father's name if his parents had separated when he was 6 or younger (before 1900 when half-sister Florence Clark was born).

Son William Richard's marriage cert in1915 says Albert is deceased - but maybe that's just what he thought, or what Minnie had told him.

so it is possible that Albert and William took on the Clark surname but when William Richard married Edna Winifred he used the surname Read on his marriage certificate? I did wonder if William Richard had been in the services but couldn`t find anything
What a bunch! After all the hard work you have done for me I will send for Minnie`s death certificate, can`t give up now
once again thank you all for your research

Have been looking at census for William Clark and Minnie in 1911, says they have been married for 19 years which takes them back to 1892 at start of relationship. Could that be a white lie because Albert Henry born 1894 and William Richard 1895 both with Albert Read named as father?

I really enjoyed this one,saved me from boredom and the horrible weather.

Only wish we could have found birth record for Minnie.

Maryb.

I agree with you, Mary!
Completely fascinating!

Yes, Josephine - probably a white lie about the marriage for respectability.

And if Albert was still alive, then Minnie had indeed been married c19 years - just not to William Clark. Unless William is Albert, as Mary suggested, with a change of occupation.

Could this be Susan Emily Randall born 1862 sister of Minnie

Albert Henry Read 1916 in Tikinui New Zealand says Aunt Mrs S A Nelson.

Susan Emily Nelson in Tikinui 1900 onwards

I can't find a marriage for her or her death or anything on her in England.

On looking at Albert Henry Read's war records it could be S E Nelson !!

EDIT
Emily Nelson married Thomas James Hamilton Wallace 1919
Susan Emily Wallace of Te Kopura Auckland died 4/3/1943
Thomas James Hamilton Wallace died 1942
On Susan Emily Wallace's grave on Ancestry info it says from son Bert Nelson.

A tree on Ancestry has him marrying Susan Emily Randle in 1919 but they have her as 1866 born Scotland

Maryb.

Thomas James Hamilton Wallace
in the New Zealand, Electoral Rolls, 1853-1981
Name: Thomas James Hamilton Wallace
Electoral Year: 1938
District: Kaipara
Region or Province: Northland

With Susan Emily Wallace.
Address: Te Kepuru

Found this, not sure if relevant
Susan Emily Randle, age 10 born about 1863
father William, mother Maria
admission date to St Mary`s Church of England School Southwark 31.3.1873
Father...fireman in a ...?

Ironically, a grandchild of Albert Henry Read has contacted me, hoping to share information, says their mother is still alive so trying to get information from her
states that Albert Henry read settled in Whangarei New Zealand

I am unable to open any records from New Zealand to read any information

Albert Henry's death/burial record already posted on page 2 of this thread.

Copying again here:

Albert Henry Read
in the New Zealand, Cemetery Records, 1800-2007
Name: Albert Henry Read
Death Age: 76
Birth Date: abt 1894
Death Date: 20 Apr 1970
Death Place: Whangarei
Burial Place: Whangarei, Northland
Cemetery : Maunu RSA

Various pages on Albert Henry's army record refer to Mrs S A Nelson, not SE -
but otherwise Mary's find looks correct.

Looking at records for Susan Emily Nelson it appears this could be her husband and son
Gustav Albert/Alfred Nelson 1853-1917 remember she remarried 1919.
Son Herbert/Bert/Bertie all in same area

Emily Randle married in New Zealand 1887 to Albert Nelson

Maryb

Birth certificate arrived for Susan EmilyRread
reg. district West Ham, sub district Plaistow
sixteenth November 1897 14 Ship Street, Canning Town, West Ham
Father Albert Read Bootmaker
mother Minnie Eugenia Read formally Randall
signature A Read aunt present at birth 14 Ship Street Canning town

If a listing for Poplar, Tower Hamlets, would have included Canning Town (I don't know London districts, but I see on the map that Canning Town isn't far from Poplar), there are no Reads in Ship Street.

14 Ship Street isn't listed in 1897 as such, but there's a George Mills at 14 Upper Ship Street:

George Mills
in the London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
Name: George Mills
Electoral Date: 1897
Street address: 14 Upper Ship-street
Ward or Division/Constituency: Poplar
County or Borough: Tower Hamlets, England

In 1898 his address is given as Ship Street:

George Mills
in the London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
Name: George Mills
Electoral Date: 1898
Street address: 14 Ship-street
Ward or Division/Constituency: Poplar
County or Borough: Tower Hamlets, England


The Read family seem to have done a lot of moving about, perhaps only sub-letting from other people and therefore never appearing on ERs.

There seems to be another Ship Street, in St George, Tower Hamlets - but no Reads - and no Number 14 listed in 1897 or 1898.

Thanks for looking

1901/1911 14 Ship Street Canning Town

Adolf Fritz born Germany 1866

Maryb

is there any significance in stating that aunt was present at birth? was it to witness the death of Susan Emily?

I take it the aunt was the informant?

A birth cert always says who the informant was, and if the person was present at the birth it says that too.

The info on the birth cert is nothing to do with the death - it's for the birth only.

The death cert may have a different informant.
Although Susan died in the same quarter , it could have been at any time up to late December.

informant says A Read and underneath aunt present at birth