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Many thanks for the info ArgyllGran

Kind regards

Howard Stubbings

Yes, that's correct.

Thomas Davis and the Cowens family are one "house"hold, the News are a different "house"hold, so presumably a different boat .

The different "house"holds do all seem to be a community, with possibly members of one family being split between different boats.
For instance, James Bellanger (14) is in a different "house"hold from James Bellanger (51), who may (or may not) be his father, and Thomas Bellanger (18).

There's also a Samuel Davis (25) in the same "house"hold as young James Bellanger - might possibly be some relative of Thomas Davis, although born in Worcestershire.

I believe that canal boats often worked in tandem (one boat towing another) - so the families may have been living and working together, but just not physically on the same boat on census night.

Lots of interesting stuff about canal boats online - just Google.

For instance:
http://eprints.nottingham.ac.uk/10946/1/281065_vol1.pdf

FAO Malyon

Dear Malyon

Sorry to bring up this subject again but you sent me an 1871 census of where Tryphena New was -spelt Tryfena on the form. I was aware of this and the section is headed "canal boats" which may mean she was on a boat at the time of the census. What I had not seen before is that on the very next line of the census-schedule number 47 (RG10/2929/F)-Tryphena appears at number 46-there is a reference to Thomas Davis-unmarried-aged 17. This must be the ancestor of mine whom Tryphena subsequently married. The age, name,occupation fit perfectly. Do you know if these different reference numbers under the heading "canal boats" mean that he was on a different-possibly adjoining boat-at the time of the census?

Kind regards

Howard Stubbings

Daughter Julia in 1881:

Julia New
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Julia New
Age: 22
Estimated birth year: abt 1859
Relationship to Head: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Wombourne, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: Kinver
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Street address: Little Checkhill
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Occupation: General Domestic Serv
Registration district: Wolverhampton
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors:
Piece: 2790
Folio: 17
Page Number: 14
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth Hawkins 37
Julia New 22


Death of son David ??

David New
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Death Age: 64
Birth Date: abt 1860
Registration Date: Jan 1924
[Feb 1924]
[Mar 1924]
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: Croydon
Inferred County: Surrey
Volume: 2a
Page: 496

I don't suppose she wanted to be on a boat with a baby and two toddlers!

Thanks researchers for the extra info-especially about Sarah New who seemed to be living elsewhere in 1861 whilst her husband was on a boat!

Kind regards

Howard Stubbings

Benjamin's wife Sarah in 1861;

Sarah New
in the 1861 England Census
Name: Sarah New
Age: 32
Estimated birth year: 1829
Relation: Wife
Gender: Female
Where born: Ounsdale, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: Orton and Wombourne
Ecclesiastical parish: Wombourne
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration district: Wolverhampton
Sub-registration district: Wombourn
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 34
Piece: 1986
Folio: 64
Page Number: 6
Household Members:
Name Age
Sarah Wright 60 [ mistranscribed - different household. ]
Sarah New 32 - boatman's wife
Ann New 4
Julia New 2
David New 5/12


NEW, JULIA mms UNDERHILL
GRO Reference: 1859 M Quarter in WOLVERHAMPTON Volume 06B Page 381

NEW, DAVID mms UNDERHILL
GRO Reference: 1860 D Quarter in WOLVERHAMPTON Volume 06B Page 364

I don't see Ann's birth.

Rose -
Catherine posted Tryphena's parents' probable marriage -

Benjn. New
in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973
Name: Benjn. New
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 22 Sep 1850
Marriage Place: Wolverhampton, Stafford, England
Spouse: Sarah Underhill
FHL Film Number: 1040908

It doesn't show up on FreeBMD, though.


I don't see births of Benjamin jr, Anna or Fanny - not with mms Underhill, and not in the years suggested by 1861 census.

For our reference:

Benjamin New
in the 1861 England Census
Name: Benjamin New
Age: 55
Estimated birth year: 1806
Gender: Male
Where born: Wanbon, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: Cheddington
Ecclesiastical parish: Oxford
County/Island: Buckinghamshire
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration district: Leighton Buzzard
Sub-registration district: Ivinghoe
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors:
Piece: 1008
Folio: 66
Page Number: 26
Household Members:
Name Age
John Deighton 53
Eliza Deighton 52
Charles Deighton 16
Elizabeth Healey 24
Henrietta Healey 2
Jephunah Healey 1

Edward Russell 58
Lucy Russell 62
Thomas Marson 64
Joseph Letts 14

John Flavout 55 - boat man captain
Benjamin New 55 - boat man
Isaac Blackburn 60 - boat man
Benjamin New 17 - boat boy
Anna New 8 - boat girl
Fanny New 7 - boat girl

NOTE:

Ancestry has transcribed three households together.

The Deightons and Healeys live at Lock House.

Then there are two boat "households".
The Russell/Marson/Letts seem to be on a different boat from the New/Blackburn/Flavout boat.

I'm unable to find a marriage for Tryphena's parents too.

Rose

Dear researchers

As a supplementary question to my query yesterday about Thomas Davies and his wife Tryphena New-they were clearly both boatpeople. Tryphena's father Benjamin New appears on a census in 1861 for Lock House, Cheddington, Leighton Buzzard as a person not in a house on census day. He was presumably in a boat as there are 16 of them mentioned-several described as boat boys and boat girls. I seem to remember that many years ago I found him on other boats at the time of the census but I can't remember how I did this. He was born in Wombourne, Staffordshire described as Wombon on the census. Is there some way of finding out whether he and his family were on other boats at the time of other censuses?

Kind regards

Howard Stubbings

To Catherine, Malyon and Greyghost

Thanks for all your further work and posts but Thomas Davies definitely married Tryphena New-just can't find evidence of a marriage taking place. See what I mean about all the different spelling permutations of Tryphena in the various censuses.

Kind regards

Howard Stubbings

Marriage posted above would appear to be for a Thomas Henry Davies, a Farmer, to an Elizabeth Sarah Madden 20 Aug 1878

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1878/11110/8066554.pdf

Marriage of THOMAS DAVIES and ELIZABETH MADDEN (Image Thomas Henry)
on 20 August 1878
Group Registration ID 2634239
SR District/Reg Area Dublin South

Thomas Henry Davies
Ireland Civil Registration Indexes, 1845-1958
Name:
Thomas Henry Davies
Event Type:
Marriage
Event Date:
Jul - Sep 1878
Event Place:
Dublin South, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year:
Jul - Sep 1878
Registration District:
Dublin South
Volume Number:
2

Tryphena Davies
England and Wales Death Registration Index 1837-2007
Name:
Tryphena Davies
Event Type:
Death
Registration Quarter:
Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration Year:
1935
Registration District:
Barton Upon Irwell
County:
Lancashire
Event Place:
Barton Upon Irwell, Lancashire, England
Age:
83
Birth Year (Estimated):
1852
Volume:
8C
Page:
517
Affiliate Line Number:
126

ngland and Wales Census, 1871
Name:
Tryfena New
Event Type:
Census
Event Date:
1871
Event Place:
Wombourn, Staffordshire, England, United Kingdom
Event Place (Original):
Orton, Wombourn, Staffordshire, England
Sub-District:
Wombourn
Enumeration District:
4b
Gender:
Female
Age:
18
Marital Status:
Unknown
Occupation:
Boatwoman
Birth Year (Estimated):
1853
Birthplace:
Staffordshire
Relationship to Head of Household:
Sister
Relationship to Head of Household (Original):
Sister
Entry Number:
2
Affiliate Image Identifier:
GBC/1871/2929/0120
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Hannah New Head Female 20 Staffordshire
Tryfena New Sister Female 18 Staffordshire

Just posting for reference:-

1891
Name: Thomas Davies
Gender: Male
Age: 38
Relationship: Head
Birth Year: 1853
Spouse: Tryphena Davies
Child: Solomon Davies
Sarah E Davies
Charlotte Davies
Rose H Davies
Emma Davies
Thomas H Davies
William Davies
Florence Davies
Birth Place: Briley Hill, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: St Mary
Ecclesiastical parish: Lymm St Marys
Residence Place: Lymm, St Mary, Cheshire, England
Registration district: Altrincham
Sub registration district: Lymm
ED, Institution or Vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2827
Folio: 85
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Davies 38 - Coal Dealer
Tryphena Davies 39 - Birth Place: Wombon, Staffordshire
Solomon Davies 16 - Birth Place: Runcorn, Cheshire
Sarah E Davies 14 - Birth Place: Runcorn, Cheshire
Charlotte Davies 11 - Birth Place: Lymm, Cheshire
Rose H Davies 9 - Birth Place: Runcorn, Cheshire
Emma Davies 7 - Birth Place: Runcorn, Cheshire
Thomas H Davies 5 - Birth Place: Lymm, Cheshire,
William Davies 3 - Birth Place: Lymm, Cheshire,
Florence Davies 8/12 - Birth Place: Lymm, Cheshire,
...................................

1901
Name: Thomas H Davies
Age: 47
Estimated birth year: abt 1854
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Spouse: Tryphinaus Davies
Birth Place: Birerley Hill, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: Eccles
Search Photos: Search for 'Eccles' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Ecclesiastical parish: Patricroft Christchurch
Town: Monton and Winton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Registration district: Barton upon Irwell
Sub-registration district: Barton
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3662
Folio: 14
Page Number: 20
Household schedule number: 110
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas H Davies 47
Tryphinaus Davies 48
Sarah E Davies 23
Charlotte Davies 20
Rose H Davies 18
Emma Davies 16
Thomas H Davies 14
William Davies 12
Florence Davies 10
Ethel Davies 7 - Birth Place: Winton, Lancashire
.................................................

1911
Name: Thomas Henry Davies
Age in 1911: 59
Estimated birth year: abt 1852
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Brusely Hill, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: Eccles
Search Photos: Search for 'Eccles' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 35 Dudley St Patricroft Manchester
Marital status: Married
Occupation: Shopkeeper
Registration district: Barton upon Irwell
Registration District Number: 463
Sub-registration district: Barton
ED, institution, or vessel: 25
Piece: 23608
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Henry Davies 59
Tryphenus Davies 59
Thomas H Davies 24
Charlotte Davies 30
Emma Davies 26
Florence Davies 20
Ethel Davies 17
William Davies 22
Lena Holmes 20

12 Children - 9 Living - 3 Died

Married - 38years (but it could be that they never actually married)

Thanks very much Catherine. Yes that was indeed the marriage of Tryphena's father and mother because they both appear on Tryphena's birth certificate.

Kind regards

Howard

Not the marriage you're looking for, but here it is anyway, just in case.

Name: Benjn. New
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 22 Sep 1850
Marriage Place: Wolverhampton, Stafford, England
Spouse: Sarah Underhill
FHL Film Number: 1040908

Thanks very much for your post Maddie.

It does seem to be a possibility-given that his brother was Solomon and his possible father John lived at Canal Wharf and was a boatman like Thomas.

Presumably no joy with any marriage between Thomas and Tryphena? By the way I have seen Tryphena spelt a hundred different ways.There is a nice headstone for both of them in Peel Green Cemetery, Lancashire.

Kind regards

Howard Stubbings