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Tnks Sylvia

Food for thought, I was wondering if she met him on ship but didn't find him on passenger list that Pamelia sailed on.

Will keep on looking..

Brgds
Ron

............ so he could have been registered at birth as Jones? An illegitimate child??

I did wonder whether Pamelia knew him before and went out to join him, or whether they met on the ship going out to the US..

William's second marriage has his mother as Mary JONES.

William Rose
Sex Male
Marital status Married
Father's first name(s) William
Father's last name -
Mother's first name(s) Mary
Mother's last name Jones
Event Marriage
Year 1901
Event date 24 Dec 1901
Place , Bristol, Massachusetts, United States
Spouse's first name(s) Jane
Spouse's last name Lilley
Spouse's sex Female
Spouse's age 40
Spouse's birth year 1861
Spouse's father's first name(s) Edward S.
Spouse's father's last name -
Spouse's mother's first name(s) Martha
Spouse's mother's last name Hanson

In 1861 there are lots of William Roses born c1854, with parents William and Mary.

But I don't see the birth of any William Rose with mms Wright, 1847-61.

Thanks for the info Sylvia

Pamelia left the UK with her son Samuel on 27th July 1892 on ss CATALONIA of Cunard Company arriving in Boston in August, she according to records married William Rose in November 1892 so was quite soon after her arrival William Rose was born in UK, but, havn't sourced when he went to USA yet that for another day.

mgnv gave me quite a lot of info, very interesting.

Thanks once again

Ron.

Ron ................

Going back centuries, marriages broke up back then, often very soon after the marriage, just as they do now.

However, people who did not have money could not get a divorce, it was extremely expensive, and there were few grounds.

Just saying "we're not getting along" was by no means sufficient.

So, people separated, sometimes moved to other places, sometimes stayed where they were, and often found new partners. Many formed common-law relationships, but told everyone that there were married, including census takers!

Others lied about their marital status, said they were widowed or bachelor/spinster.

There was no checking of the marital status by the priest or registrar, I'm not sure if there is now but there certainly was not when we married back in 1967.

So, not surprising that Pamelia got married if she found a new love in America, she'd never ever dream that someone in the future would be curious enough to look into her life!

She was just one of thousands, maybe millions over the centuries, who did that.

Thanks mgnv
i'd already registered with family search, without your helpas well as other helpers, i'd not have gotten this far, what I cannot follow at the moment , Pamelia was married to John Ferns in UK , according to what I found John died in 1911 unless she divorced him before going to US when she married William Rose she was still a married woman!!!
Thank you once again

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1383852
Free Ancestry access for V-E Day w/e

In view of above, I'm posting my incomplete notes
NB most US URLs here have image links


Marriages Jun 1862 (>99%)
Hanson Martha Ann Ashton 8d 770
Lilly Edward Smith Ashton 8d 770

Marriages Jun 1884 (>99%)
FERNS John Ashton 8d 782
SHEPLEY Pamelia Ashton 8d 782

Cheshire Marriage indexes for the years:
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Year Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
SHEPLEY Samuel LINDLEY Hannah 1860 Ashton under Lyne, St Michael Tameside CE4/14/177
LILLEY Edward Smith HANSON Martha Ann 1862 Ashton under Lyne Civil Marriage or Registrar Attended Tameside RM/21/115
SHEPLEY Pamelia FERNS John 1884 Newton in Mottram, St Mary Tameside CE33/1/375

LILLEY, ANNIE HANSON
GRO Reference: 1863 J Quarter in ASHTON-UNDER-LYNE Volume 08D Page 469


1851 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGTS-PSM

1861 Census
Piece: RG9/2996 Place: Dunkinfield -Lancashire Enumeration District: 17
Civil Parish: Dukinfield Ecclesiastical Parish: St Johns
Folio: 39 Page: 12 Schedule: 60
Address: 1 Newtons Yard
Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
SHIPLY Samuel Head M M 21 Opperative In A Cotton Mill Cheshire - Stalybridge
SHIPLY Hannah Wife M F 24 Lancashire - Ashton Under Lyne
SHIPLY Betty Dau - F 1 Cheshire - Stalybridge
SHIPLY Pamelia Dau - F 7m Cheshire - Stalybridge
SHIPLY Enoch Brothr W M 30 Opperative In A Cotton Mill Derbyshire - Belper
SHIPLY Tom Nephew - M 7 School Cheshire - Stalybridge

1871 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBFB-HF4
Piece/Folio: 4084 / 14 Page Number: 22
1871 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBF1-9LB
Piece/Folio: 4088 / 71 Page Number: 33

1881 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27P-55BJ

1891 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:7MDX-7ZM




All US
https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/list/?fcs=region%3AUNITED_STATES&ec=region%3AUNITED_STATES
US BMDs
https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/list/?fcs=region%3AUNITED_STATES%2CrecordType%3AVITAL&ec=region%3AUNITED_STATES%2CrecordType%3AVITAL
US Censuses
https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/list/?fcs=region%3AUNITED_STATES%2CrecordType%3ACENSUS&ec=region%3AUNITED_STATES%2CrecordType%3ACENSUS


M 28/11/1892
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N448-F8M
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FHD7-W34
D 8/10/1900
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NW6Q-ZNL
m2 24/12/1901
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N445-V1L
D 17/5/1892 New Bedford, MA Uncle Enoch
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N7KF-SQT


wm E Rose Sr 5/11/1902-31/10/1989 s/o Wm Rose & Jane Lilly
B https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FXNL-PFN
D https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KFRH-M9B
Son obit
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKLP-5V57

1900 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M3QB-H14
Addy = 128 South 11th St
1910 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M2J9-QPK
Addy = 110 Division St immig Wm 1892 Jane 1896
1920 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MXYM-R8T
1930 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XQL4-T81

Ron ...............

IGI used to be great, but as I understand it, IGI has not been updated for years.

All the information on it was extracted by Hugh (I think that was his name) from Family Search, the Mormon site.

It is better now to use Family Search itself, BUT keep only to the Collections not family trees which can be really "iffy". The Collections side contains records from all around the world.

You have to register, and sign in, but it is free.

Thanks malyon

I'm with Ancestry, Genes, Find my Past I also use IGI but obviously not looking in right places :-D :-D

I must say all of the helpers are brilliant and I cannot thank you all enough

Rgds

Ron

i always look in family search its free

Thanks Sylviain

All your comments noted much appreciated :-D

Thanks Malyron

Silly me didn't realise there was page 2 on replies, interesting Pamela in USA so it look like sh emigrated espesciallmas you mentioned her Mother and Father which are correct I will look through page 2 of all replies that could be the reason I couldn't find her at later census?

Thank you all once again, I am amazed how all this info is found, I must be looking in wrong places!!!!

Thank you for all the help "Peeps"

I was more interested in Pamelia Ferns nee Shepley as she is a direct cousin, interesting that John Ferns may have re-married

Ah well keep on searching
Brgds
Ron

Ron

One point arising from your post ............


"1066ronnie Report 5 May 2020 10:25

Thank you Malyron,

the only problem i see there is the surname is Fern not Ferns !!!

to be honest i'm more interested in Pamelia Ferns nee Shepley who i believe was John Ferns first wife, but all help is greatly appreciated

Ron"


Mistranslations often happened, especially back in the day when everything was handwritten.

If you get the certificate, can find a parish record online, or look at the original transcript of the Register on Freebmd, you will almost certainly find that it was originally written Ferris. Think of copper-plate handwriting in the original certificate, Parish Register, or the Local Register, then finally transcribed by GRO, and you will see that Ferris can very easily be misread as Ferns or Ferms.

One of the names that I research is Cadd ............. I have to also look for Ladd, Sadd, Dadd!

When you search for Ferris, may I suggest that you use the wild card * which can stand in for 1 or more letters .................. Fer*s

That is what I, malyon and other researchers are doing/

Irving was widowed by 1930. Shame both Pamelas didn't have long marriages.

Us Census 1930

New Bedford, Bristol, Massachusetts

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Birth place
Herbert F Teachman Head Married Male 62 1868 Massachusetts
Melissa Teachman Wife Married Female 60 1870 Massachusetts
Irving R Teachman Son Widowed automechanic Male 30 1900 Massachusetts
William J Teachman Grandson Single Male 6 1924 Massachusetts
Raymond H Teachman Grandson Single Male 1 1929 Massachusetts

Pamela Ester Rose
Massachusetts Marriages, 1841-1915
Tools

Name:
Irving Raymond Teachman
Event Type:
Marriage
Event Date:
26 Jun 1922
• Edit
Event Place:
New Bedford, Bristol, Massachusetts, United States
• Edit
Event Place (Original):
New Bedford
Gender:
Male
Age:
22
Birth Year (Estimated):
1900
Father's Name:
Herbert F Teachman
Mother's Name:
Melissa Ann Tripp
Spouse's Name:
Pamela Ester Rose
Spouse's Gender:
Female
Spouse's Age:
22
Spouse's Birth Year (Estimated):
1900
Spouse's Father's Name:
William Rose
Spouse's Mother's Name:
Pamela Shepley

Pamela's death:

Name: Pamela Shepley Rose
Event Type: Death
Event Date: 08 Oct 1900
Event Place: New Bedford, Massachusetts
Gender: Female
Age: 40
Age: 40y 27d
Age: 40 years 27 days
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Housewife
Birth Year (Estimated): 1860
Birthplace: England
Burial Place: New Bedford
Father's Name: Samuel Shepley
Father's Birthplace: England
Mother's Name: Hannah Lindley
Mother's Birthplace: England
Spouse's Name: William
Source Reference: Shepley Rose, Pamela, 1900
Digital Folder Number: 004289811
Record Number: 360
Record Number: 360

Reference ID: v 504 p 365
GS Film Number: 1843726
Digital Folder Number: 4289811
Image Number: 389
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: B07448-5


Rose

William Rose remarried. Did Pamelia perhaps die in childbirth if young Pamela is her daughter?


Us Census 1900

South Eleventh St, Easton Northampton Pennsylvania

William Rose Head Married Male foreman hosiery 45 born May 1855 England
Pamela Rose Wife Married Female 40 born Sept 1860 England
Samuel Rose Son Single Male 16 born March 1884 spreader hosiery England
Pamela A Rose Daughter Single Female 5 months born Dec 1899 Pennsylvania


Us Census 1910

New Bedford Ward 6, Bristol, Massachusetts, United States

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year
William Rose Self Married Male 55 1855
Jane Rose Wife Married Female 44 1866
Pamela E Rose Daughter Single Female 10 1900
William A Rose Son Single Male 7 1903


Oh snap Rose :-)



Us Census 1920

Part of Precinct 22 New Bedford City 6 Bristol Massachusetts


William Rose Self Married Male 63 1857 England
Jane Rose Wife Married Female 55 1865 England
Pamela E Rose Daughter Single Female 20 1900 Pennsylvania
William E Rose Son Single Male 17 1903 Massachusetts

William was from England too and has the same year of immigration.

Rose