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Hi "Peeps"
Pamelia or Pamellia, Pamela Shepley (B) 1860 I have found she married John Ferns in 1884?have tried to locate them in 1901 census (Brick wall)
1891 census she living with father with surname Ferns and a son Samuel Ferns Age 6, something wrong, or am I looking in wrong area, Help would be much appreciated,
You are my only hope,
Thanks beforehand
Ronald

For our reference this is the 1891 census:-

Nields Terrace, Lord Street, Dukinfield, Ashton under Lyne, Cheshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Samuel Shepley Head Married Male 51 1840 Labourer Hyde, Cheshire, England
Hannah Shepley Wife Married Female 54 1837 - Stalybridge, Cheshire, England
Pamelid Ferns Daughter Married Female 30 1861 Cotton Frame Tenter Stalybridge, Cheshire, England<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Samuel Ferns Grandson - Male 6 1885 Scholar Stalybridge, Cheshire, England
Samuel Shepley Son - Male 20 1871 Labourer Stalybridge, Cheshire, England
Hannah Shepley Daughter - Female 22 1869 Weaver Cotton Stalybridge, Cheshire, England
James Shepley Son - Male 14 1877 Apprentice Tin Plate Worker Stalybridge, Cheshire, England

Kath. x

Could this be John in 1891 with his widowed mother?:-

Dearden Street, Dukinfield, Ashton under Lyne, Cheshire, England

Margaret Ferns Wife Widow Female 50 1841 - Stalybridge, Cheshire, England
John Ferns Son Married Male 28 1863 Labourer Stalybridge, Cheshire, England<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Ann Monsell Lodger Widow Female 50 1841 Charwoman Stalybridge, Cheshire, England
Wright Turner Lodger Widower Male 58 1833 Blacksmith Stalybridge, Cheshire, England

Kath. x

I can't find them in 1901.

I can't find a marriage for them either.

Kath. x

Record Transcription:
Cheshire Diocese of Chester parish marriages 1538-1910
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First name(s) John
Last name Ferns
Age 21y
Marriage year 1884
Marriage date 07 Jun 1884
Marriage place Newton In Mottram
Spouse's first name(s) Pamelia
Spouse's last name Shepley
Spouse's age 24y
Bride's father's name Samuel Shepley
City or town Newton-in-Mottram
County Cheshire
Country England
Reference item 1 p 187
Record set Cheshire Diocese of Chester parish marriages 1538-1910
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Marriages
Collections from England, Great Britain

johns father is george

Record Transcription:
1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Grosvenor Street, Dukinfield, Ashton under Lyne, Cheshire, England
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Is this the same person?
We've found the following potential record matches for the same person in other record sets
John Ferns
Census Record
Cheshire, England
Year of census: 1881
Household Members
Members that resided in the household at the time of the census.
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
George Ferns Head - Male 30 1841 - Lancashire, England
Margaret Ferns Wife - Female 30 1841 - Ireland
John Ferns Son - Male 7 1864 - Lancashire, England
Mary Burgess Aunt - Female 77 1794 - Lancashire, England
Sarah Day Boarder - Female 25 1846 -

Hi Kath,
Thanks for the info I already have the 1891 census, same for me couln't locate her in 1901 or 1911 John Ferns looks a good bet with his widowed mother ,

Hi Safc
Thanks for info I didn't have that info looks promising, gives me something to wok on,
Thank you both for your time,

I wonder why cannot find them in 1901?

Brgds
Ron

The marriage is on freebmd, so unsure why you didn't have the info

Marriages Jun 1884 (>99%)
Ferns John Ashton 8d 782
Shepley Pamelia Ashton 8d 782

His mother's on her own in 1901

Name: Margaret Ferns
Age: 62
Estimated birth year: abt 1839
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Ireland
Civil Parish: Stalybridge
Search Photos: Search for 'Stalybridge' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
Town: Stalybridge
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Ashton under Lyne
Sub-registration district: Stalybridge
ED, institution, or vessel: 22
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3795
Folio: 130
Page Number: 15
Household schedule number: 100
Household Members:
Name Age
Margaret Ferns 62

Ancestry links this John in 1901

Name: John Ferns
Age: 37
Estimated birth year: abt 1864
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Spouse: Catherine Ferns
Birth Place: Stalybridge, Cheshire, England
Civil Parish: Stalybridge
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Ashton under Lyne
Sub-registration district: Stalybridge
ED, institution, or vessel: 21
Piece: 3795
Folio: 115
Page Number: 25
Household schedule number: 143
Household Members:
Name Age
John Ferns 37 Labourer, Iron Works
Catherine Ferns 46

Marriages Mar 1894 (>99%)
Ferns John W. Derby 8b 492
Jenkins Catherine W. Derby 8b 492

Suggestion only, of course. Documents needed for verification

He was a Labourer in 1891

In 1911, Pamela's parents say they have had 9 children, of whom 3 have died.
Have you found the births and deaths?

1911 Census For England & Wales

Ashton-Under-Lyne, Ashton under Lyne, Lancashire, England

First name(s) John
Last name Ferns
Relationship Patient
Marital status Married
Sex Male
Age 47
Birth year 1864
Birth place Cheshire Stalybridge
Occupation Hawker
House name -
House number -
Street -
Address Ashton-Under-Lyne
Parish Ashton under Lyne
County Lancashire
Country England
Archive reference RG14
Registration district Ashton under Lyne
Registration district number 468
Enumeration district 28

Hi ErikaH
In my original post I mentioned I had found the marriage, I must confess I didn't have John's parents, that I will look into this evening..

I wonder why John is living with his mother, I do not think the marriage to Catherine would be correct.

I wonder Maddie why if it is him where was he a Patient.in 1911
more mystery

Thanks for all help

On the 1911 census where John Fern(s) is a patient he is in the District Infirmary, Ashton-under-Lyne.

The Infirmary is now part of a group of hospitals that make up Tameside General Hospital.

Kath. x

Thanks for the info Kath

Record Transcription:
Lancashire Banns & Marriages

First name(s) John
Last name Ferns
Age 34
Birth year 1860
Occupation Labourer
Marital status Bachelor
Year 1894
Marriage year 1894
Marriage date 17 Feb 1894
Place Everton, St Chrysostom
Denomination Church Of England
Diocese Liverpool
Residence 4 Hodson's Place
Father's first name(s) George
Father's last name Ferns
Father's occupation Bricklayer
Spouse's first name(s) Catherine
Spouse's last name Jenkins
Spouse's age 39
Spouse's birth year 1855
Spouse's marital status Spinster
Spouse's residence 4 Hodson's Place
Spouse's father's first name(s) John
Spouse's father's last name Jenkins
Spouse's father's occupation Boiler Maker
Witness 1 Mary Jones
Witness 2 Mary Hetherington
County Lancashire
Country England
Archive
Liverpool Record Office
Archive reference 283-CHY-3-5
Register type Marriages
Register year range 1893-1900
Record set Lancashire Banns & Marriages
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Marriages
Collections from England, Great Britain

You put a query mark after the year of the marriage, which, in my experience, usually indicates uncertainty

Don’t rule out the later marriage without getting proof.

Father's name is the same in both marriage records.

Maybe John and Pamela split up, no divorce, he found a new spouse, married in another diocese and said he was a bachelor.

He lied, but that was not unusual back then when only very wealthy people could get divorced.

Have you found Samuel Ferris b 1885?

ErikaH
I have found 3 sisters and 3 brothers for Pamelia, but, not Deaths, Sorry should'n't have put ? over the date of marriage to John Ferns

Ron

Yes Sylvialn

Have Samuel Born 1885 was thinking that could be only option John married Catherine in 1894

The plot thickens...

Samuel Fern
England, Manchester, Parish Registers, 1603-1910
Name:
Samuel Fern
Event Type:
Marriage
Event Date:
29 Jun 1907
Event Place:
St James, Ashton-under-Lyne, Lancashire, England
Gender:
Male
Marital Status:
Widowed
Father's Name:
John Fern
Spouse's Name:
Sarah Jane Vickers
Spouse's Gender:
Female
Spouse's Marital Status:
Single
Spouse's Father's Name:
William Vickers
Record Number:
4240