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Thelma
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12 May 2020 12:31 |
i guessed that they might be gone.
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ArgyllGran
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12 May 2020 11:48 |
Looking at Google Maps, Churchyard Row still exists, but all the buildings are modern.
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Thelma
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12 May 2020 10:32 |
Many thanks for all the recent information. I bet that the Edgar's death you cite is Emily's son as the age/location fits in. I wonder what Emily saw in Bridger....she must have been very desperate.
The whole story is so sad and the deaths of all 7 children at the age of 0 accentuates the pain she must have had. I must see if that particular block of Rowton House still exists in Lambeth (I can do a bit of google searching when I make time); if Edgar's block is still standing, I can take a ride there when the virus is over. They may have been demolished of course but they look fine buildings. What a kind person to set up this organisation to help the poor.
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ArgyllGran
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11 May 2020 22:43 |
A few more bits of newspaper articles about Bridger Marsh. These can be found on GR's link to the British Newspaper Archive (under "Search" at the top of this page). It will cost 5 credits to view each article in full. I searched for "Bridger Marsh" and specified Kent. I don't know where alviegal found the other articles.
Kent & Sussex Courier Kent, England 4 Jan 1889 . . . . .pain for many days. While the way to the police station, Bridger Marsh and another man told him that he bad better let the prisoner go, or they would all appear at Court and make it hot for him. Marsh took hold of the prisoner, when told him he had better. . . . .
Kent & Sussex Courier Kent, England 13 Sep 1878 TONBRIDGE . . . . . . (in the chair) Thomson Hankey. Esq , M.P., C. Powell, Esq., and Sir David L Salomons, Bart. Poaching Case.—Herbert Rye, Bridger Marsh, Robert Bennett, Wm. and Alfred Millie, youths, of Tonbridge, were summoned for trespassing in search of coni's on land. . . . .
Maidstone Journal and Kentish Advertiser Kent, England 5 Jan 1889 STAPLEHURST …...without any provocation, without the latter saying anything at all. Wickenden was not drunk, but had had tidy lot beer. —Bridger Marsh corroborated this evidence, and said that Wickenden was not quite sober.—The Bench imposed tine . and the costs for. . . . . .
???
Kent & Sussex Courier Kent, England 27 Feb 1885 TONBRIDGE PETTY SESSIONS . . . . . child being the defendant’s house, when Marsh jumped over the wall and struck him, and he struck him back again. They did not appear last week, as they thought that if no one appeared the case would be dismissed.—Marsh, on the other side, alleged that he. . . . . .
I'm not sure about that last one. Skimming other newspaper articles, it appears there was a policeman with the surname Marsh in the area at that time, so the Marsh mentioned might be him, and not Bridger.
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Thelma
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11 May 2020 19:49 |
I like the link to Rowton House. What interesting reading. Oh, I see about the wrong year of Edgar's birth. That is possible especially if he was born in that quarter but a previous year....and also that there is no other Edgar Marsh showing up. I wonder if he died an Edward Marsh or Coleman (maybe he was never told his roots? Thanks
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ArgyllGran
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11 May 2020 16:59 |
Possible death ???
Edgar Marsh in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007 Name: Edgar Marsh Death Age: 68 Birth Date: abt 1894 Registration Date: Oct 1962 [Nov 1962] [Dec 1962] Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec Registration district: Lambeth Inferred County: London Volume: 5c Page: 1269
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ArgyllGran
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11 May 2020 16:55 |
The Edgar Marsh born 15/10/1894 per the 1939 Register could well be the right man.
DOB's in the 1939 Register are often not quite correct, especially the year. Your Edgar was born in the last quarter of 1893, which could fit the day and month - maybe just the year is incorrect in 1939.
For our reference:
Edgar Marsh in the 1939 England and Wales Register Name: Edgar Marsh Gender: Male Marital status: Single Birth Date: 15 Oct 1894 Residence Year: 1939 Address: Rowton House 1 Churchyard Row London SE 11 Residence Place: Southwark, London, England Occupation: Carman Schedule Number: 4 Sub Schedule Number: 24 Enumeration District: AUOL Registration district: 20-2
The list of people living in Rowton House goes on for several pages.
Seems to have been one of a chain of hostels:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rowton_Houses
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Thelma
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11 May 2020 12:20 |
Thanks alviegal for your press references.
Is there a special site that you personally use to give you access to such interesting facts? I would find that helpful if you can guide me.
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Thelma
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11 May 2020 12:18 |
Hello again, Argyll Gran. Just an update from me.
Looking at your very helpful notes, I think that it is VERY likely that Edgar Coleman was born before Emily got together with Bridger. The birth reference fits in exactly with the area and date when my grandmother (Louisa Holmes) was living in Swanscombe Road, Chiswick. I bet she gave refuge to Emily (her sister) when she was pregnant as an unmarried mother. I cannot find Edgar on the 1939 census except an Edgar Marsh born on October 15th 1894 but those dates don't fit. Either he might have died or reverted to his birth name of Coleman but I can't find that either. I would like to find his end and also Emilie's too but that must be another day. It would be wonderful if Edgar married and had descendants so that I can follow that through
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Thelma
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8 May 2020 10:44 |
Thanks for that. That was one of my " to do" jobs today to look for Emily's death. I too was wondering if she had found another "husband" after Bridger's death as she was quite young at the time. Support and financial and that sort of thing?
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ArgyllGran
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8 May 2020 09:33 |
Assuming she continued to live in London, and assuming she continued to call herself Marsh, the death which fits most nearly age-wise is this one:
Deaths Mar 1930 (>99%) MARSH Emily 66 Lewisham 1d 1150
But who knows - she may have taken up with someone else and used his surname in later years without marrying.
And an age stated at death is only as good as what the informant knew or thought they knew.
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ArgyllGran
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8 May 2020 09:11 |
You're very welcome, Thelma.
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Thelma
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7 May 2020 22:12 |
ArgyllGran,
I apologise for doubting your link to "my Emily". I have done a bit more cross referencing (free Ancestry at the moment till Sunday) and see that, despite the wrong ages on two census, it must be her as the Kimble link is there. Another thing that you wouldn't know is that the living son, Edgar on both census is born in Swanscombe Road, Chiswick - the road where my Mum, was born. Her mother Louisa was the sister of Emily so Emily must have been there too either visiting or living there. I cannot thank you enough for finding Emily. I was crying when I read your words a second time. I have spent hours/years at the National Archives with no success. It is obviously a very complex and sad story and still much for me to explore. Poor lady having 7 out of her 8 children dying. Unbearable to think about it.
Regards and thanks again, Thelma
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ArgyllGran
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4 May 2020 12:03 |
Why don't you think that's your Emily who had all those children with Bridger Marsh?
(She's not the one who married Edward Nicholls, of course)
I know the 1901 census gives her YOB as c1871, and 1911 says 1869, but census data isn't always correct, especially ages.
There was no Emily Coleman born in Wycombe RD (which includes Great Kimble, where Bridger's partner was born) in either 1871 or 1869.
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Thelma
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4 May 2020 10:11 |
\thanks for these recent thoughts. Don't think that any of these suggestions are my Emily - tragic story amongst the posts though
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alviegal
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1 May 2020 17:25 |
Bridger died in 1906, just after his last daughter died. I suppose he couldn't marry Emily because he was still married to Clara. What a tragic family.
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ArgyllGran
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1 May 2020 16:46 |
Oh well, not Emily Nicholls, then!
Yes, it seems Clara was well shot of Bridger.
And poor Emily, to have lost 7 children.
Her claim of having been married for 18 years takes us back to 1893, when Edgar was born. Maybe that's when she took up with Bridger, even though they didn't marry.
Possible (and one definite!) other children:
Births:
MARSH, EMILY mms COLEMAN GRO Reference: 1894 S Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 509
MARSH, THOMAS mms COLEMAN GRO Reference: 1898 S Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 512
MARSH, BRIDGER JOHN mms COLEMAN GRO Reference: 1902 S Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 457
MARSH, SIDNEY mms COLEMAN GRO Reference: 1903 D Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 460
MARSH, CARRIE NORA mms COLEMAN GRO Reference: 1906 M Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 468
Deaths:
Deaths Sep 1894 (>99%) Marsh Emily 0 Lambeth 1d 265
Deaths Sep 1898 (>99%) Marsh Thomas 0 Lambeth 1d 319
Deaths Dec 1903 (>99%) Marsh Sidney 0 Lambeth 1d 260
Deaths Sep 1902 (>99%) Marsh Bridger John 0 Lambeth 1d 257
Deaths Jun 1906 (>99%) Marsh Carrie Nora 0 Lambeth 1d 226
That still leaves one to find.
ADDED:
Here's the other poor wee soul;
MARSH, CHARLES mms COLEMAN GRO Reference: 1896 M Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 554
Deaths Jun 1896 (>99%) Marsh Charles 0 Lambeth 1d 278
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alviegal
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1 May 2020 14:26 |
A few articles on Bridger Marsh. He was known to be an 'idle, worthless fellow, a thief and a poacher' who drunk all his wages away.
IS MARRIAGE FAILURE? Bridger Marsh, labourer, of Cage Green, Tunbridge, was summoned for committing an aggravated assault on his wife, Clara Marsh, and to show cause why separation and maintenance order should not be made on him, and that she should have custody of the children. 24 October 1891 - Sussex Agricultural Express - Lewes, Sussex, England
A NEGLIGENT HUSBAND. Bridger Marsh, was summoned by his wife for disobedience of justices’ order in not allowing her 10s. per week, towards the support of 14 May 1892 - Sussex Agricultural Express - Lewes, Sussex, England
HAPPY COUPLE, Bridger Marsh was charged on warrant with disobedience of justices' order to contribute 10s. week towards the maintenance of his wife and family, whereby .£5 10s. was in arrears.—Mr. A. H. Neve appeared for the defendant.—Mrs. Marsh spoke of the arrears 25 June 1892 - Sussex Agricultural Express - Lewes, Sussex, England
Poor Clara, he sounds a thoroughly nasty piece of work.
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ErikaH
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1 May 2020 14:06 |
In 1911, Emily claims to have been married for 18 years, and have had 8 children , of whom 7 have died.
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ErikaH
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1 May 2020 14:02 |
1939 for the one who married in 1913
Name: Emily Nicholls Gender: Female Marital status: Married Birth Date: 31 Oct 1885 Residence Year: 1939 Address: 4, Residence Place: Hackney, London, England Occupation: Unpaid Domestic Duties Schedule Number: 153 Sub Schedule Number: 2 Enumeration District: AICY Registration district: 12/1 Inferred Spouse: Edward Nicholls Household Members: Name Edward Nicholls Emily Nicholls 06/12/1884 Annie Nicholls 04/08/1858
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