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Please can anyone find my relative: Emily Coleman born in Great Kimble, Buckinghamshire on May 25th 1865 AFTER the census of 1891 when she was living in Acton?

Based on information on her parents' census for 1911 (John and Emma Coleman) she is still alive so where is she during the twenty years of 1891 and 1911 - and maybe after? I cannot find any mention of her anywhere based on deaths and marriages despite years of looking for her. She did not have a middle name and I have a lot of information of her before 1891 so I don't need that.

Many thanks in advance. Thelma

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1370223

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1349518

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1342115

Without trawling through all those threads again -

how about this?


Emily Marsh
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Emily Marsh
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1871
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Spouse: Bridget Marsh
Birth Place: Great Kimble, Buckinghamshire, England
Civil Parish: Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish: St Saviour
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Lambeth
Sub-registration district: Brixton
ED, institution, or vessel: 22
Neighbors:
Piece: 427
Folio: 119
Page Number: 59
Household schedule number: 342
Household Members:
Name Age
Bridget Marsh 39 [ Bridger on image] - born Tonbridge, Kent
Emily Marsh 30
Edgar C Marsh 8
Ivy D Darsh 2 [ Marsh on image ]


Daughter's birth:

MARSH, IVY DOROTHY mms COLEMAN <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
GRO Reference: 1901 M Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 520

Edgar born before the parents were together?

COLEMAN, EDGAR -
GRO Reference: 1893 D Quarter in BRENTFORD Volume 03A Page 108



I don't think they married

Bridger had married in 1881 and his wife was still alive in 1911:

Bridger Marsh
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1837-1915
Name: Bridger Marsh
Registration Year: 1881
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Tonbridge
Inferred County: Kent
Volume: 2a
Page: 983
Records on Page:
Name
Clara Leigh
Bridger Marsh


Bridger Marsh
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Bridger Marsh
Gender: Male
Age: 29
Relationship: Head
Birth Year: 1862
Spouse: Clara Marsh
Child: Ellen Marsh
Thomas Marsh
Frederick Marsh
Philis Marsh
Birth Place: Tunbridge, Kent, England
Civil Parish: Tunbridge
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter and St Paul
Residence Place: Tunbridge, Tunbridge, Kent, England
Registration district: Tunbridge
Sub registration district: Tunbridge
ED, Institution or Vessel: 1
Neighbors:
Piece: 681
Folio: 13
Household Members:
Name Age
Bridger Marsh 29
Clara Marsh 34
Ellen Marsh 9
Thomas Marsh 8
Frederick Marsh 3
Philis Marsh 1
Harry May 30


Bridger and Clara have separated by 1901, although she's calling herself a widow for respectability:

Clara Maish
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Clara Maish
[Clara Marsh]
Age: 45
Estimated birth year: abt 1856
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Tonbridge, Kent, England
Civil Parish: Tonbridge
Ecclesiastical parish: Tonbridge St Peter and St Paul
Town: Tonbridge
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Registration district: Tonbridge
Sub-registration district: Tonbridge
ED, institution, or vessel: 05
Neighbors:
Piece: 757
Folio: 86
Page Number: 17
Household schedule number: 117
Household Members:
Name Age
Clara Maish 45
Thomas Maish 19
Frederick Maish 13
Phillis Maish 11
Henry Hayward 30


Clara Marsh
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Clara Marsh
Age in 1911: 54
Estimated birth year: abt 1857
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Tonbridge, Kent
Civil Parish: Tonbridge
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Street address: 75 Shipbourne Rd, Tonbridge
Marital status: Widowed
Occupation: Charwoman
Registration district: Tonbridge
Registration District Number: 50
Sub-registration district: Tonbridge
ED, institution, or vessel: 02
Piece: 4075
Household Members:
Name Age
Clara Marsh 54
Phyless Marsh 21
Percy Saxby 21

Bridger Marsh
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: Bridger Marsh
Estimated birth year: abt 1862
Registration Year: 1906
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 44
Registration district: Lambeth
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d
Page: 196



Sadly, Ivy died in infancy:

Ivy Dorothy Marsh
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: Ivy Dorothy Marsh
Estimated birth year: abt 1901
Registration Year: 1901
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 0
Registration district: Lambeth
tInferred County: London
Volume: 1d
Page: 267

Emily and Edgar in 1911:

Emily Marsh
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Emily Marsh
Age in 1911: 42
Estimated birth year: abt 1869
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Princes Risborough, Buckingham, England
Civil Parish: Lambeth
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 18 Tintern Street, Brixton
Marital status: Widowed
Occupation: General House Work
Registration district: Lambeth
Registration District Number: 25
Sub-registration district: Stockwell
ED, institution, or vessel: 37
Piece: 2044
Household Members:
Name Age
Emily Marsh 42
Edgar Marsh 17


On the image, Emily's birthplace is "Gt Kimble, near Princes Risborough, Bucks"


Edgar's middle initial C in 1901 probably stands for Coleman.

Just a stab in the dark as a possible later marriage for Emily:

Marriages Jun 1913 (>99%)
Marsh Emily Nicholls Shoreditch 1c 155
Nicholls Edward R M Marsh Shoreditch 1c 155


I can't find any other record for Edward R M, though there are various Edward Nicholls with middle names beginning with R.

1939 for the one who married in 1913

Name: Emily Nicholls
Gender: Female
Marital status: Married
Birth Date: 31 Oct 1885
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 4,
Residence Place: Hackney, London, England
Occupation: Unpaid Domestic Duties
Schedule Number: 153
Sub Schedule Number: 2
Enumeration District: AICY
Registration district: 12/1
Inferred Spouse: Edward Nicholls
Household Members:
Name
Edward Nicholls
Emily Nicholls 06/12/1884
Annie Nicholls 04/08/1858

In 1911, Emily claims to have been married for 18 years, and have had 8 children , of whom 7 have died.

A few articles on Bridger Marsh. He was known to be an 'idle, worthless fellow, a thief and a poacher' who drunk all his wages away.

IS MARRIAGE FAILURE? Bridger Marsh, labourer, of Cage Green, Tunbridge, was summoned for committing an aggravated assault on his wife, Clara Marsh, and to show cause why separation and maintenance order should not be made on him, and that she should have custody of the children.
24 October 1891 - Sussex Agricultural Express - Lewes, Sussex, England


A NEGLIGENT HUSBAND. Bridger Marsh, was summoned by his wife for disobedience of justices’ order in not allowing her 10s. per week, towards the support of
14 May 1892 - Sussex Agricultural Express - Lewes, Sussex, England


HAPPY COUPLE, Bridger Marsh was charged on warrant with disobedience of justices' order to contribute 10s. week towards the maintenance of his wife and family, whereby .£5 10s. was in arrears.—Mr. A. H. Neve appeared for the defendant.—Mrs. Marsh spoke of the arrears
25 June 1892 - Sussex Agricultural Express - Lewes, Sussex, England


Poor Clara, he sounds a thoroughly nasty piece of work.

Oh well, not Emily Nicholls, then!

Yes, it seems Clara was well shot of Bridger.

And poor Emily, to have lost 7 children.

Her claim of having been married for 18 years takes us back to 1893, when Edgar was born. Maybe that's when she took up with Bridger, even though they didn't marry.

Possible (and one definite!) other children:

Births:

MARSH, EMILY mms COLEMAN
GRO Reference: 1894 S Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 509

MARSH, THOMAS mms COLEMAN
GRO Reference: 1898 S Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 512

MARSH, BRIDGER JOHN mms COLEMAN
GRO Reference: 1902 S Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 457

MARSH, SIDNEY mms COLEMAN
GRO Reference: 1903 D Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 460

MARSH, CARRIE NORA mms COLEMAN
GRO Reference: 1906 M Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 468


Deaths:

Deaths Sep 1894 (>99%)
Marsh Emily 0 Lambeth 1d 265

Deaths Sep 1898 (>99%)
Marsh Thomas 0 Lambeth 1d 319

Deaths Dec 1903 (>99%)
Marsh Sidney 0 Lambeth 1d 260

Deaths Sep 1902 (>99%)
Marsh Bridger John 0 Lambeth 1d 257

Deaths Jun 1906 (>99%)
Marsh Carrie Nora 0 Lambeth 1d 226


That still leaves one to find.

ADDED:

Here's the other poor wee soul;

MARSH, CHARLES mms COLEMAN
GRO Reference: 1896 M Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 554

Deaths Jun 1896 (>99%)
Marsh Charles 0 Lambeth 1d 278

Bridger died in 1906, just after his last daughter died. I suppose he couldn't marry Emily because he was still married to Clara. What a tragic family.

\thanks for these recent thoughts. Don't think that any of these suggestions are my Emily - tragic story amongst the posts though

Why don't you think that's your Emily who had all those children with Bridger Marsh?

(She's not the one who married Edward Nicholls, of course)

I know the 1901 census gives her YOB as c1871, and 1911 says 1869, but census data isn't always correct, especially ages.

There was no Emily Coleman born in Wycombe RD (which includes Great Kimble, where Bridger's partner was born) in either 1871 or 1869.

ArgyllGran,

I apologise for doubting your link to "my Emily". I have done a bit more cross referencing (free Ancestry at the moment till Sunday) and see that, despite the wrong ages on two census, it must be her as the Kimble link is there. Another thing that you wouldn't know is that the living son, Edgar on both census is born in Swanscombe Road, Chiswick - the road where my Mum, was born. Her mother Louisa was the sister of Emily so Emily must have been there too either visiting or living there.
I cannot thank you enough for finding Emily. I was crying when I read your words a second time. I have spent hours/years at the National Archives with no success. It is obviously a very complex and sad story and still much for me to explore. Poor lady having 7 out of her 8 children dying. Unbearable to think about it.

Regards and thanks again, Thelma

You're very welcome, Thelma.

Assuming she continued to live in London, and assuming she continued to call herself Marsh, the death which fits most nearly age-wise is this one:

Deaths Mar 1930 (>99%)
MARSH Emily 66 Lewisham 1d 1150

But who knows - she may have taken up with someone else and used his surname in later years without marrying.

And an age stated at death is only as good as what the informant knew or thought they knew.

Thanks for that. That was one of my " to do" jobs today to look for Emily's death. I too was wondering if she had found another "husband" after Bridger's death as she was quite young at the time. Support and financial and that sort of thing?

Hello again, Argyll Gran. Just an update from me.

Looking at your very helpful notes, I think that it is VERY likely that Edgar Coleman was born before Emily got together with Bridger. The birth reference fits in exactly with the area and date when my grandmother (Louisa Holmes) was living in Swanscombe Road, Chiswick. I bet she gave refuge to Emily (her sister) when she was pregnant as an unmarried mother. I cannot find Edgar on the 1939 census except an Edgar Marsh born on October 15th 1894 but those dates don't fit. Either he might have died or reverted to his birth name of Coleman but I can't find that either. I would like to find his end and also Emilie's too but that must be another day. It would be wonderful if Edgar married and had descendants so that I can follow that through

Thanks alviegal for your press references.

Is there a special site that you personally use to give you access to such interesting facts? I would find that helpful if you can guide me.

The Edgar Marsh born 15/10/1894 per the 1939 Register could well be the right man.

DOB's in the 1939 Register are often not quite correct, especially the year.
Your Edgar was born in the last quarter of 1893, which could fit the day and month - maybe just the year is incorrect in 1939.

For our reference:

Edgar Marsh
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Edgar Marsh
Gender: Male
Marital status: Single
Birth Date: 15 Oct 1894
Residence Year: 1939
Address: Rowton House 1 Churchyard Row London SE 11
Residence Place: Southwark, London, England
Occupation: Carman
Schedule Number: 4
Sub Schedule Number: 24
Enumeration District: AUOL
Registration district: 20-2

The list of people living in Rowton House goes on for several pages.

Seems to have been one of a chain of hostels:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rowton_Houses