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No, I've not been able to find one either, Chris..

I wondered if wasn't registered as a suicide in those days?

We don't have a Burial for your Mary 1873...

Chris :)

Thank you Argyll Gran and Chris for all your kind efforts. Plenty for me to digest!

I hadn't found that burial for Mary Reading after her tragic demise, so it was a great find, many thanks Chris. :-)

lol, Ag, snap, was just wondering on below Burial...(image also on FMP)

Chris :)

County Hertfordshire
Place Boxmoor
Church name St John the Evangelist
Register type Unspecified
Register entry number 1337
Burial date 05 Mar 1874
Burial person forename Mary Ann
Burial person surname READING
Person age 38
Burial person abode Hemel Hempstead

https://www.freereg.org.uk/


07 March 1874 - Hemel Hempstead Gazette and West Herts Advertiser

Death
On the 2nd inst., at the Union House, Hemel Hempstead, Mary Ann Reading, aged 39.


(your Mary below)

Birth
READING, MARY FOWLER
GRO Reference: 1838 D Quarter in AMERSHAM Volume 06 Page 272


Deaths Dec 1872 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------------------
READING Mary 33 Berkhampstead 3a 257


(just to add she is not with Mother Sophia 1861 Chesham, Bucks.)


(another below, occ. Cook, born Buckinghamshire, St. Leonard's) (if near Chesham!)

1861
Redding Mary 1837 — 1861 1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Harrow, Hendon, Middlesex,

???

Deaths Mar 1874 (>99%)
READING Mary Ann 39 H. Hempstead 3a 285

Alternatively -

Possibly the child called Mary Elizabeth in 1861 census???

REDDING, ANN MIMA -
GRO Reference: 1861 J Quarter in HEMEL HEMPSTED Volume 03A Page 320

and the other child in the 1871 census below ??

REDDING, ALICE SARAH -
GRO Reference: 1866 J Quarter in HEMEL HEMPSTED Volume 03A Page 353



Mary A Reading
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Mary A Reading
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: 1841
Relation: Housekeeper
Gender: Female
Where born: Chesham Buckinghamshire England <<<<<<<<<<<<
Civil Parish: Hemel Hempstead
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
County/Island: Hertfordshire
Country: England
Registration district: Hemel Hempstead
Sub-registration district: Hemel Hempstead
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Household schedule number: 37
Piece: 1387
Folio: 24
Page Number: 8
Household Members:
Name Age
William Durrant 68
William Burry 68
Mary A Reading 30 - unmarried
Alice Reading 5 - Hemel Hempstead
Ann Reading 10 <<<<< ?? Hemel Hempstead

?? If already posted, this is just to keep them all together.

*** EDIT: BUT see next post.


Mary Reading
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Mary Reading
Age: 31
Estimated birth year: 1840
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Chesham Buckinghamshire England
Civil Parish: St Peter
Town: Tittenhanger
County/Island: Hertfordshire
Country: England
Registration district: St Albans
Sub-registration district: St Albans
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Household schedule number: 125
Piece: 1378
Folio: 106
Page Number: 24
Household Members:
Name Age
Charlotte Cooke 30
Mary Reading 31


Mary Reading
in the 1851 England Census
Name: Mary Reading
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1839
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: Charles Reading
Mother's name: Sophia Reading
Gender: Female
Where born: Chesham, Buckinghamshire, England
Civil Parish: Chesham
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
Town: Chesham
County/Island: Buckinghamshire
Country: England
Street address:
Registration district: Amersham
Sub-registration district: Missenden
ED, institution, or vessel: 1a
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 101
Piece: 1717
Folio: 101
Page Number: 24
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Reading 39
Sophia Reading 40
James Reading 15
Sarah Reading 14
Mary Reading 12
Sophia A Reading 5
Charles Reading 3
Martha Reading 2
Thomas Reading 5 Mo



Mary Reading
in the 1841 England Census
Name: Mary Reading
Age: 2
Estimated birth year: abt 1839
Gender: Female
Where born: Buckinghamshire, England
Civil Parish: Chesham
Hundred: Burnham
County/Island: Buckinghamshire
Country: England
Registration district: Amersham
Sub-registration district: Chesham
Neighbors:
Piece: 47
Book: 2
Folio: 4
Page Number: 3
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Reading 30
Mary Reading 25
James Reading 6
Sarah Reading 4
Mary Reading 2

For our reference ( I don't think it's been posted already ):

Mary Elizabeth Reading
in the 1861 England Census
Name: Mary Elizabeth Reading
Age: 2/12
Estimated birth year: 1861
Relation: Daughter
Mother's name: Mary Ann Reading
Gender: Female
Where born: Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire, England
Civil Parish: Hemel Hempstead
Ecclesiastical parish: Box Moor
County/Island: Hertfordshire
Country: England
Registration district: Hemel Hempstead
Sub-registration district: Hemel Hempstead
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 55
Piece: 839
Folio: 69
Page Number: 10
Household Members:
Name Age
William Lovett 49 - head
Hannah Lovett 39 - wife
James Lovett 18 - son
John Floyd 21 - boarder
Mary Ann Reading 24 - lodger, unmarried, Chesham, Bucks
Mary Elizabeth Reading 2/12 - daughter (of lodger) , Hemel Hempstead

Looking at the image, it looks as if the two Mary's are a different household from John Floyd and the Lovetts.

Not wanting to open another thread but have been unable to find out what happened to Mary Elizabeth Reading b 1861 Hemel Hempstead. I've found her on Census of 1861 with her mother a Mary Ann Reading. I believe this woman although has Ann as middle name may well be the Mary Reading b 1838 Chesham on my original posting above.. It's not Mary Ann Reading born in Redbourne..

The baby had only been 2 weeks old so am thinking she may have died but can't see a death for her either. She's not the Kensington death some years later as that applied to a birth of same name in Kensington.

Any thoughts gladly received. Many thanks :-)

Gosh.. poor woman.

Thank you for that Alviegal x

Amazing what you can find out about Family

She drowned herself and hoped to drown her daughter, Flora as well.

A Mr F Darvell, Mary's cousin, who was close to her, was sent a letter posted by Mary the previous day.' In it she said that she and the little girl would be found in the canal opposite her clothes. She hoped that her brother and sister would look after their father well as she had interest in nothing.'

The poor woman seems to have been seriously depressed and had been seeing the doctor about it. She had secured a post as a maid and also visited Sophia and Phillip Reading to take tea just hours before commiting the act.

Verdict was Death from drowning while in a state of unsound mind.

Such a find the newspaper article as I've pondered Mary Reading for years. Does it say how she died?

I also wonder if it's her on the Census 1861 living in Hemel Hempstead under name Mary Ann Reading with a John Floyd 21 yrs and new baby Mary Elizabeth?

Thank you so much, Chris.

I'm going to be a bit slow catching up.. All so very interesting, I've not seen that. Will subscribe in due course. Many thanks! :-)

Thank you all so much! :-)

The reason I wondered was below...(relating to Mary and her sad Death, Father Charles is mentioned)

(Newspapers can be viewed from below, Find My Past or Genes, all require a Subscription, well worth a Month at least, all sorts of things turn up!)

https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/account/subscribe

Chris :)

GREAT BERKHAMPSTEAD

... mamma threw her in and she got out again. She said her name was Reading, and she wanted to be taken fo her Aunt Sophia. (The little girl proved to be the daughter of the deceased Mary Reading, of Chesham, aged 33.) Her neighbour, Mrs. Tarsey, came, and they ...

Published: Saturday 04 January 1873
Newspaper: Bucks Herald


FA I ITF U L S HTC I® E . io ¦¦ 11

... mother threw her in. and she got out again. She said her name was Reading, and she wanted to taken to her aunt Sophia. (The Uttie girl proved to be the daughter of the deceased, Mary Reading, of Chesham, aged 38.) Witness’s neighbour, Mrs. Tarsey came, ...

Published: Saturday 04 January 1873
Newspaper: Herts Advertiser
County: Hertfordshire, England

(as above, from British Newspaper Archive)


(another relating, am sure there will be more relating to family, needs time!)


24 March 1916 - Buckinghamshire Examiner - Chesham, Buckinghamshire

Death of Old Inhabitant.
We regret to report the death of Mrs. Sophia Anne Reading, wife of Mr. Philip Reading, of the Broadway, Chesham, which took place on the afternoon of March 17th. Although the decease was somewhat sudden...

Her mother is Mary Fowler b 1816. Both her and her sister Sophia Fowler 1812 married Charles Reading (I have lots on this family).

Charles Reading and Mary Fowler's children are James Reading b 1835, Sarah Reading b 1837, MARY READING b 1838 - 72? and Samuel Reading.

I didn't find a huge amount on Florence B Flower Reading's mother, Mary Reading b 1838. A few possible Census records but no marriage.

I have plenty on Charles Reading and Sophia Reading and their children, not focusing on them currently, thank you :-) :-) :-)

Would this be her Mother, by any chance...

Chris :)

Deaths Dec 1872 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------------------
READING Mary 33 Berkhampstead 3a 257


1871
Charlotte Cooke Head - Female 80 1791 - Essex, England
Mary Reading General Servant - Female 31 1840 - Buckinghamshire, England (Chesham)
Hatfield Road, St Peter, St Albans, Hertfordshire


(and below her Sister)

Marriages Sep 1868 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------
READING Philip Amersham 3a 576
READING Sophia Amersham 3a 576


1871
Philip Reading Head - Male 30 (Draper and Plait Dealer) 1841 - Buckinghamshire, England (Chesham)
Sophia Ann Reading Wife - Female 26 1845 - Buckinghamshire, England (Chesham)
Lilian Ada Reading Daughter - Female 2 1869 - Buckinghamshire, England
Annie Sophia Reading Daughter - Female 0 1871 - Buckinghamshire, England
High Street, Berkhamstead, Berkhampstead, Hertfordshire


Birth
READING, SOPHIA ANN FOWLER
GRO Reference: 1845 D Quarter in AMERSHAM Volume 06 Page 293

Birth
READING, MARY FOWLER
GRO Reference: 1838 D Quarter in AMERSHAM Volume 06 Page 272

Would probably be below, for the couple on Probate you mention...

Chris :)

Marriages Sep 1864 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------
Flower Ann Watford 3a 443
LUCK Samuel Watford 3a 443


(that Death looks to be below, (covers Rickmansworth) would be too old...

Deaths Mar 1892 (>99%)
------------------------------------------------
Flower Joseph 88 Watford 3a 499


Burial
County Hertfordshire
Place Rickmansworth
Church name St Mary the Virgin
Register type Parish Register
Register entry number 331
Burial date 06 Jan 1892
Burial person forename Joseph
Burial person surname FLOWER
Person age 88
Burial person abode Rickmansworth


(below perhaps his Daughter, who Married Samuel Lock...

County Hertfordshire
Place St Albans
Church name Abbey
Register type Parish Register
Register entry number 773
Baptism date 26 Feb 1823
Person forename Ann
Person sex F
Father forename Joseph
Mother forename Ann
Father surname FLOWER


https://www.findagrave.com/

(above is often useful for United States)

Below was posted earlier...

Chris :)

20 July 1889 - Herts Advertiser - St Albans, Hertfordshire, England

Marriage
Flower - Adams July 10th, at St. Jude's Church, South Kensington, by the Rev. Prebendary Forest D.D., Jane Josephine Adams, of South Kensington, London, to Mr. Joseph Flower, of New York.


Edits (on 1889 Marriage image, Joseph (39) Widower, occ. Fruiterer, Spencer Street, St.Albans. Father, John Flower, occ. Whitesmith)


(possible, New York)

Joseph Flower (Arrival Date) 22 Jul 1871 (Birth Year) abt 1849 London, England English (Ship Name) Constantine (occ. Tin Smith)


US Census 1900
Joseph Flower Self Married Male 51 1849 England (occ. ? Store)
Jane J Flower Wife Married Female 43 1857 France
Alban E Flower Son Single Male 10 1890 New York
Milton J Flower Son Single Male 8 1892 New York
Eveline A Flower Daughter Single Female 7 1893 New York
Greenwich Ave.
(says year of immigration)1870 (him) 1889 (her)

1905 New York
Jane J Flower
abt 1859 Joseph ( occ. Grocer)Manhattan, New York Park Ave.)

1925 New York
(Jane J Flower, Head. Valentine Ave., Bronx, New York)


(his first Marriage)

United States Marriages

First name(s) Joseph
Last name Flower
Sex Male
Age 31
Birth year 1851
Father's first name(s) John
Father's last name
Mother's first name(s) Mercy
Mother's last name Beveridge
Event Marriage
Year 1882
Event date 30 Oct 1882
Location Manhattan
Place Manhattan, New York City, New York, United States
County New York City
State New York
Country United States
Spouse's first name(s) Ida E
Spouse's last name Mathews
Spouse's sex Female
Spouse's age 23
Spouse's birth year 1859
Spouse's father's first name(s) Henry
Spouse's father's last name
Spouse's mother's first name(s) Mary
Spouse's mother's last name Archer
FamilySearch film number 001671681


His Father John Death 1891 (Spencer Street) left a Will, would be worth getting...

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills

I don't believe the family were Catholic.

I still don't have a definitive link that proves these families moved to USA. Today I've found a Will on Ancestry -

Joseph Flower of Rickmansworth, Herts d 31 Dec 1891. Probate London 15 Jan to Ann Luck (wife of Samuel Lock) and William King warehouseman Effects £352. 8s 6d.

Could this be Joseph Flower b 1849 St Albans if he's not moved to USA..? There isn't an age for him and I can't find the death?