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Welcome to the Genes Reunited community boards!

The Genes Reunited community is made up of millions of people with similar interests. Discover your family history and make life long friends along the way.
You will find a close knit but welcoming group of keen genealogists all prepared to offer advice and help to new members.
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The Genes community will go out of their way to help you, so don’t be shy about asking for help.

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Profile	Posted by	Options	Post Date
Member Since: July 2011 Posts: 1,288 Send Message	lavender	Report	24 Sep 2019 09:17
Member Since: July 2011 Posts: 1,288 Send Message	I have a dna connection to two brothers, John Flower b 1846 St Albans, Herts and Joseph Flowers b 1849 St Albans, Herts or their father also John Flower b 1819 St Albans, Herts as the father of my Gt Grandmother, Florence Beatrice Flower Reading b 1866 St Albans, Herts. (illegitimate) I can find information on John Flower b 1819 and his son Joseph Flower b 1849 but am struggling to find anything definite beyond Census 1861 for the elder son John Flower b 1846? His brother Joseph Flower b 1849 settles in New York but am unable to find travel documentation for John Flower b 1846. There are a few naturalisation documents for a John Flower but they don't include a date of birth to confirm it's him. Many thanks for any kind help offered :-) :-)
Member Since: April 2004 Posts: 17,958 Send Message	Chris Ho :)	Report	24 Sep 2019 09:34
	Not a lot of time this morning!, but there is below, if relating... Chris :) 20 July 1889 - Herts Advertiser - St Albans, Hertfordshire, England Marriage Flower - Adams July 10th, at St. Jude's Church, South Kensington, by the Rev. Prebendary Forest D.D., Jane Josephine Adams, of South Kensington, London, to Mr. Joseph Flower, of New York. Marriages Sep 1889 (>99%) ------------------------------------------------------------ Adams Jane Josephine Kensington 1a 248 Flower Joseph Kensington 1a 248 (below is under other Marriage notice also) Newell - Flower - July 18, at the Congregational Chapel, Spicer-street, St. Albans, by the Rev. W. Urwick, M.A., Emma, youngest daughter of Mr John Flower, of St. Albans, to Mr. Edward Newell, of Pontypridd. Marriages Sep 1889 (>99%) ---------------------------------------------------- NEWELL Edward St Albans 3a 731 Flower Emma St. Alban's 3a 731 1871 Charles Reading Head - Male 59 1812 - Buckinghamshire, England Sophia Reading Wife - Female 59 1812 - Buckinghamshire, England Charles Reading Son - Male 24 1847 - Buckinghamshire, England Thomas Reading Son - Male 20 1851 - Buckinghamshire, England Florance B Reading Granddaughter - Female 4 1867 - Hertfordshire, England Church Street, Chesham, Amersham, Buckinghamshire 1881 Charles Reading Head Widower Male 70 1811 Ginger Beer Traveller Chesham, Buckinghamshire, England Florence B Reading Gra Daughter Single Female 14 1867 Genl Serv Domestic St Albans, Hertfordshire, England Thames Street, Staines, Middlesex & Surrey 1851 Sophia Reading Wife Married Female 40 1811 - Chesham, Buckinghamshire, England Charles Reading Head Married Male 39 1812 Straw Plait Dealer Farmer Of 16 Acres Employ 4 Lab Chesham, Buckinghamshire, England James Reading Son - Male 15 1836 At Home Chesham, Buckinghamshire, England Sarah Reading Daughter - Female 14 1837 Scholar Chesham, Buckinghamshire, England Mary Reading Daughter - Female 12 1839 Scholar Chesham, Buckinghamshire, England Sophia A Reading Daughter - Female 5 1846 Scholar Chesham, Buckinghamshire, England Charles Reading Son - Male 3 1848 - Chesham, Buckinghamshire, England Martha Reading Daughter - Female 2 1849 - Chesham, Buckinghamshire, England Thomas Reading Son - Male - - - Chesham, Buckinghamshire, England Church Street, Chesham, Amersham, Buckinghamshire 1841 Charles Reading Male 30 1811 Buckinghamshire, England (Plait Dealer) Mary Reading Female 25 1816 Buckinghamshire, England James Reading Male 6 1835 Buckinghamshire, England Sarah Reading Female 4 1837 Buckinghamshire, England Mary Reading Female 2 1839 Buckinghamshire, England Germaine Street, Chesham, Amersham, Buckinghamshire Birth READING, FLORENCE BEATRICE FLOWER - GRO Reference: 1866 D Quarter in SAINT ALBANS Volume 03A Page 325 (who was her Mother?) Edits (on 1889 Marriage image, Joseph (39) Widower, occ. Fruiterer, Spencer Street, St.Albans. Father, John Flower, occ. Whitesmith) 1861 John Flower Head Married Male 43 1818 Tin & Zinc Plate Worker St Albans, Hertfordshire, England Mercy Flower Wife Married Female 44 1817 - Rickmansworth, Hertfordshire, England John Flower Son - Male 14 1847 Iron Monger St Albans, Hertfordshire, England Joseph Flower Son - Male 12 1849 Silk Winder St Albans, Hertfordshire, England Ellen Flower Daughter - Female 9 1852 Scholar St Albans, Hertfordshire, England William Flower Son - Male 6 1855 Scholar St Albans, Hertfordshire, England Jane Flower Daughter - Female 4 1857 Scholar St Albans, Hertfordshire, England Mary A Flower Daughter - Female 0 1861 - St Albans, Hertfordshire, England Abbey Mill Lane, St Alban, St Albans, Hertfordshire 1871 John Flower Head - Male 53 1818 (Tin and Iron Plate Worker)- Hertfordshire, England Mary Flower Wife - Female 53 1818 - Hertfordshire, England Ellen Flower Daughter - Female 19 1852 - Hertfordshire, England Jane Flower Daughter - Female 14 1857 - Hertfordshire, England Mary A Flower Daughter - Female 10 1861 - Hertfordshire, England Emma Flower Daughter - Female 8 1863 - Hertfordshire, England Spencer Street, St Alban, St Albans, Hertfordshire 1881 John Flower Head Married Male 62 1819 Tin Iron Plate Worker &C St Albans, Hertfordshire, England Mercy Flower Wife Married Female 62 1819 - Rickmansworth, Hertfordshire, England Ellen Flower Daughter Single Female 29 1852 Straw Hat Machinist St Albans, Hertfordshire, England Jane Flower Daughter Single Female 24 1857 Straw Hat Machinist St Albans, Hertfordshire, England Mary A Flower Daughter Single Female 20 1861 Drapers Assistant St Albans, Hertfordshire, England Emma Flower Daughter Single Female 18 1863 Straw Hat Machinist St Albans, Hertfordshire, England Spencer Street, St Albans, Hertfordshire 1891 John Flower Head Widower Male 73 1818 Gas Fitter Bell Hanger Hertfordshire, England Jane Richardson Daughter Widow Female 34 1857 Straw Hat Finisher Hertfordshire, England Emma Newell Daughter Married Female 29 1862 - Hertfordshire, England Sidney E Richardson Grandson - Male 7 1884 - Hertfordshire, England Edward S Newell Grandson - Male 0 1891 - Hertfordshire, England Evelyn Newell Granddaughter - Female 0 1891 - Hertfordshire, England Edward Newell Son In Law Single Male 25 1866 Grocers Assistant Montgomeryshire, Wales Joseph Newell Visitor Single Male 12 1879 - Merionethshire, Wales Spencer Street, St Albans, Hertfordshire The Father Death below, with Will... Deaths Sep 1891 (>99%) ----------------------------------------------- Flower John 73 St Albans 3a 269 https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills (Wife Mercy Death 1889) (just to add, Hertfordshire Baptisms (FMP) for John and Joseph Flower, no Birthdates given on images) County Hertfordshire Place St Albans Church name Abbey Register type Parish Register Register entry number 117 Marriage date 03 May 1846 Groom forename John Groom surname FLOWER Groom parish Abbey Groom condition bachelor Groom occupation Tin-plate Worker Groom abode St. Albans Bride forename Mary Bride surname BEVERIDGE Bride parish St. Peter's Bride condition spinster Bride abode St. Albans Groom father forename Joseph Groom father surname FLOWER Groom father occupation Corporation Beadle Bride father forename Richard Bride father surname BEVERIDGE Bride father occupation Labourer Witness1 James PINNOCK Witness2 Mary PINNOCK County Hertfordshire Place St Albans Church name St Peter Register type Parish Register Register entry number 1387 Burial date 15 Aug 1891 Burial person forename John Burial person surname FLOWER Person age 73 Burial person abode Spencer Street, Abbey Parish https://www.freereg.org.uk/ (possible, New York) Joseph Flower (Arrival Date) 22 Jul 1871 (Birth Year) abt 1849 London, England English (Ship Name) Constantine (occ. Tin Smith)
Member Since: July 2011 Posts: 1,288 Send Message	lavender	Report	24 Sep 2019 09:58
Member Since: July 2011 Posts: 1,288 Send Message	Wonderful, thank you so very much, Chris X :-) :-) :-)
Member Since: March 2003 Posts: 26,287 Send Message	ArgyllGran	Report	24 Sep 2019 13:01
	Emma Flower was a sister of John 1846: FLOWER, EMMA mms BEVERIDGE GRO Reference: 1862 D Quarter in SAINT ALBANS Volume 03A Page 293 FLOWER, JOHN mms BEVERIDGE GRO Reference: 1846 S Quarter in SAINT ALBANS UNION HERTS Volume 06 Page 457
	Researching: Old genealogists never die.....they just lose their census.
Member Since: March 2003 Posts: 26,287 Send Message	ArgyllGran	Report	24 Sep 2019 13:21
	?? Right age, and born England - but that's not enough to identify him: John Flower in the 1880 United States Federal Census Name: John Flower Age: 34 Birth Date: Abt 1846 Birthplace: England Home in 1880: New York City, New York, New York, USA House Number: 316 Dwelling Number: 31 Race: White Gender: Male Relation to Head of House: Self (Head) Marital status: Married Spouse's name: Harriet L. Flower Father's Birthplace: England Mother's Birthplace: England Occupation: Hardware Store Neighbors: Household Members: Name Age John Flower 34 Harriet L. Flower 28 Walter Flower 10 Jennie F. Flower 8 John Flower 4 Florence M. Flower 2
	Researching: Old genealogists never die.....they just lose their census.
Member Since: March 2003 Posts: 26,287 Send Message	ArgyllGran	Report	24 Sep 2019 13:32
	If the above family is the right one, this might perhaps be the daughter Florence M, named after John's mother ?? Just a wild conjecture! Florence Mercy Flower in the New York and Vicinity, United Methodist Church Records, 1775-1949 Name: Florence Mercy Flower Event Type: Membership Membership Date: 19 Apr 1908 Membership Place: Cornell, New York, USA EDIT: But could also be the daughter of Walter Flower , who is in the 1880 census above. Here's Walter with family including daughter Florence M in 1900: Florance M Flower in the 1900 United States Federal Census Name: Florance M Flower Birth Date: Feb 1895 Birthplace: New York Home in 1900: Manhattan, New York, New York Street: East 76 Street House Number: 347 Sheet Number: 5 Number of Dwelling in Order of Visitation: 10 Family Number: 133 Race: White Gender: Female Relation to Head of House: Daughter Marital status: Single Father's name: Walter Flower Father's Birthplace: New York Mother's name: Tillie Flower Mother's Birthplace: New York Years in US: 43 Can Read: Yes Can Write: No Can Speak English: Yes House Owned or Rented: O Home Free or Mortgaged: M Farm or House: H Neighbors: Household Members: Name Age Walter Flower Tillie Flower Florance M Flower Maud N Flower Lillie Flower Cornell is also where Walter and Tillie married: Walter Frederick Flower in the New York and Vicinity, United Methodist Church Records, 1775-1949 Name: Walter Frederick Flower Gender: Male Marriage Age: 23 Event Type: Marriage Birth Date: abt 1871 Birth Place: N Y Marriage Date: 27 May 1894 Marriage Place: Cornell, New York, USA Spouse: Matilda M Wenke
	Researching: Old genealogists never die.....they just lose their census.
Member Since: July 2011 Posts: 1,288 Send Message	lavender	Report	24 Sep 2019 18:43
Member Since: July 2011 Posts: 1,288 Send Message	Thank you so much Argyll Gran and also Chris Ho! So kind... and all so wonderful helpful. Yes, it is difficult to be absolutely certain as to John Flower's identification in USA.. I had the very same thought as to whether Florence had been named after a firstborn! I had identified this Flower family as being a likely father for my Gt Grandmother Florence B Flower Reading so was thrilled to find these names linked on someone that matched my dna. Lots to be looking at this week! Many thanks again :-)
Member Since: July 2005 Posts: 12,339 Send Message	alviegal	Report	24 Sep 2019 19:07
Member Since: July 2005 Posts: 12,339 Send Message	Florence M from the above 1880 census? Living on East 81, Manhatten. Record Transcription: Us Census 1900 Thomas J Taylor Self Widowed Male 70 1830 Ireland Fanye E Taylor Daughter Single Female 44 1856 New York William Taylor Son Single Male 30 1870 New York Florence M Flower Niece Single Female 22 1878 New York Thomy Whirt Grandson Single Male 8 1892 New York and her baptism. New York Roman Catholic Parish Baptisms First name(s) Florence Last name Flower Birth year 1878 Birth date 19 Oct 1878 Baptism year 1905 Baptism date 19 Jun 1905 Parish St Paul the Apostle Location Manhattan County New York County State New York Country United States Mother's first name(s) Harriett Mother's last name Taylor Father's first name(s) John Father's last name Flower Residence 1452 First Ave Archdiocese New York Record set New York Roman Catholic Parish Baptisms Son, John's marriage. Was your John Flower Catholic? New York Roman Catholic Parish Marriages First name(s) Joannam J Last name Flower Birth year - Role Groom Marriage year 1895 Marriage date 04 Jul 1895 Parish St Anthony of Padua Location Manhattan County Manhattan State New York Father's name Joannis Flower Mother's name Harriet Taylor Spouse's first name(s) Margaritam Spouse's last name Cavanagh Spouse's father's name Michaelis Cavanagh Spouse's mother's name Annae Monahan
Member Since: April 2004 Posts: 17,958 Send Message	Chris Ho :)	Report	24 Sep 2019 19:28
	Who was the Mother of Florence Reading 1866? (just wondered) Chris :)
Member Since: July 2005 Posts: 12,339 Send Message	alviegal	Report	24 Sep 2019 19:36
Member Since: July 2005 Posts: 12,339 Send Message	Harriet's marriage. Very strange. United States Marriages First name(s) Harriet L Last name Taylor Sex Female Age 18 Birth year 1851 Father's first name(s) Triod Jones Father's last name Taylor Mother's first name(s) Mary Mother's last name Phillips Event Marriage Year 1869 Event date 14 Oct 1869 Location Manhattan Place Manhattan, New York City, New York, United States County New York City State New York Country United States Spouse's first name(s) John Flower Spouse's last name King Spouse's sex Male Spouse's age 23 Spouse's birth year 1846 Spouse's father's first name(s) John Spouse's father's last name King Spouse's mother's first name(s) Mercy Spouse's mother's last name Flower Name: Harriet Louise Taylor Race: White Event Type: Marriage Marriage Date: 14 Nov 1869 Marriage Place: New York, New York, USA Church Name: City Mission Society Father: Thomas Jones Taylor Mother: Mary Taylor Spouse: John Hower King (tinsmith) EDIT Name: John Flower King Event Type: Marriage Marriage Date: 14 Nov 1869 Marriage Place: New York, New York, USA Church Name: St Ambrose (Thompson and Prince Sts) Spouse: Harriet L. Taylor
Member Since: July 2005 Posts: 12,339 Send Message	alviegal	Report	24 Sep 2019 20:05
Member Since: July 2005 Posts: 12,339 Send Message	Harriet King in 1870 living with John King 25, a tinsmith and son, Walter 1. Us Census 1870 First name(s) Harriet Last name King Gender Female Age 20 Birth year 1850 Birth place New York Race White Residence New York, United States City/township New York City, Ward 05 County New York State New York Next door is Name: Harriet Taylor Age in 1870: 17 Birth Year: abt 1853 Birthplace: New York Dwelling Number: 28 Home in 1870: New York Ward 5 District 6 (2nd Enum), New York, New York Race: White Gender: Female Post Office: New York City Occupation: Keeping House living with Thomas Taylor, a money broker, his wife Mary and children Henrietta, Jefferson, Fanny, Robert, Mary, George, William. Which appears to be this family in 1860. Us Census 1860 Graggan Male 30 Nathan 1830 Scotland Graggan Female 24 Maria 1836 Scotland Taylor Male 30 Thomas J 1830 Ireland Taylor Female 30 Mary 1830 Ireland Taylor Female 8 Harriett 1852 New York Taylor Female 6 Henretta 1854 New York Taylor Male 4 Thomas 1856 New York Taylor Female 2 Fanny 1858 New York Taylor Male 0 Robert 1860 New York
Member Since: July 2005 Posts: 12,339 Send Message	alviegal	Report	24 Sep 2019 20:27
Member Since: July 2005 Posts: 12,339 Send Message	I've now got myself totally confused :-S
Member Since: March 2003 Posts: 26,287 Send Message	ArgyllGran	Report	24 Sep 2019 20:44
	You've confused me too, Alviegal! This is the 1900 family with whom Florence M (niece) is living - and is also the family with Harriet in 1870, as you've posted: Thomas J. Taylor in the 1880 United States Federal Census Name: Thomas J. Taylor Age: 49 Birth Date: Abt 1831 Birthplace: Ireland Home in 1880: New York City, New York, New York, USA Street: East Nintieth House Number: 502 Dwelling Number: 123 Race: White Gender: Male Relation to Head of House: Self (Head) Marital status: Married Spouse's name: Mary Taylor Father's Birthplace: Ireland Mother's Birthplace: Ireland Occupation: Money Broker Neighbors: Household Members: Name Age Thomas J. Taylor 49 Mary Taylor 49 Thomas Taylor 24 Fannie Taylor 22 Robert Taylor 21 Mary Taylor 14 William Taylor 10 Jennie Taylor 8 Emma Green 4
	Researching: Old genealogists never die.....they just lose their census.
Member Since: March 2003 Posts: 26,287 Send Message	ArgyllGran	Report	24 Sep 2019 21:00
	The John Flower King thing is very confusing. I wonder if the registrar was confused too! He's assumed John's father's name was King, because John was calling himself King for some reason. In 1870 it looks as if Harriet's father listed her as living with him, whereas she was actually married and living with John "King". (If that's the same Harriet.)
	Researching: Old genealogists never die.....they just lose their census.
Member Since: July 2011 Posts: 1,288 Send Message	lavender	Report	24 Sep 2019 23:10
Member Since: July 2011 Posts: 1,288 Send Message	Wow, so much to study, thank you Alviegal, also.. In answer to your question Chris, Florence Beatrice Flower Reading's mother was Mary Reading b 1838 Chesham. I have the birth certificate. The father was not stated. I've only just found the posts but I know from someone's dna tree that they have a John Flower b 1819 whose daughter is Ellen Flower b 1852. She apparently married John William King b 1856 Whitwell, Herts.. according to this person's tree they have three children - John Flower King b 1886 - 1949 May King b 1887 Ivy Ellen King b 1889 - 1947 Grace King - 1892 I only came across this information so haven't had time to process it. :-)
Member Since: July 2011 Posts: 1,288 Send Message	lavender	Report	24 Sep 2019 23:16
Member Since: July 2011 Posts: 1,288 Send Message	I still don't have a definitive link that proves these families moved to USA. Today I've found a Will on Ancestry - Joseph Flower of Rickmansworth, Herts d 31 Dec 1891. Probate London 15 Jan to Ann Luck (wife of Samuel Lock) and William King warehouseman Effects £352. 8s 6d. Could this be Joseph Flower b 1849 St Albans if he's not moved to USA..? There isn't an age for him and I can't find the death?
Member Since: July 2011 Posts: 1,288 Send Message	lavender	Report	24 Sep 2019 23:21
Member Since: July 2011 Posts: 1,288 Send Message	I don't believe the family were Catholic.
Member Since: April 2004 Posts: 17,958 Send Message	Chris Ho :)	Report	25 Sep 2019 06:46
	Below was posted earlier... Chris :) 20 July 1889 - Herts Advertiser - St Albans, Hertfordshire, England Marriage Flower - Adams July 10th, at St. Jude's Church, South Kensington, by the Rev. Prebendary Forest D.D., Jane Josephine Adams, of South Kensington, London, to Mr. Joseph Flower, of New York. Edits (on 1889 Marriage image, Joseph (39) Widower, occ. Fruiterer, Spencer Street, St.Albans. Father, John Flower, occ. Whitesmith) (possible, New York) Joseph Flower (Arrival Date) 22 Jul 1871 (Birth Year) abt 1849 London, England English (Ship Name) Constantine (occ. Tin Smith) US Census 1900 Joseph Flower Self Married Male 51 1849 England (occ. ? Store) Jane J Flower Wife Married Female 43 1857 France Alban E Flower Son Single Male 10 1890 New York Milton J Flower Son Single Male 8 1892 New York Eveline A Flower Daughter Single Female 7 1893 New York Greenwich Ave. (says year of immigration)1870 (him) 1889 (her) 1905 New York Jane J Flower abt 1859 Joseph ( occ. Grocer)Manhattan, New York Park Ave.) 1925 New York (Jane J Flower, Head. Valentine Ave., Bronx, New York) (his first Marriage) United States Marriages First name(s) Joseph Last name Flower Sex Male Age 31 Birth year 1851 Father's first name(s) John Father's last name Mother's first name(s) Mercy Mother's last name Beveridge Event Marriage Year 1882 Event date 30 Oct 1882 Location Manhattan Place Manhattan, New York City, New York, United States County New York City State New York Country United States Spouse's first name(s) Ida E Spouse's last name Mathews Spouse's sex Female Spouse's age 23 Spouse's birth year 1859 Spouse's father's first name(s) Henry Spouse's father's last name Spouse's mother's first name(s) Mary Spouse's mother's last name Archer FamilySearch film number 001671681 His Father John Death 1891 (Spencer Street) left a Will, would be worth getting... https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills
Member Since: April 2004 Posts: 17,958 Send Message	Chris Ho :)	Report	25 Sep 2019 06:51
	Would probably be below, for the couple on Probate you mention... Chris :) Marriages Sep 1864 (>99%) ---------------------------------------------- Flower Ann Watford 3a 443 LUCK Samuel Watford 3a 443 (that Death looks to be below, (covers Rickmansworth) would be too old... Deaths Mar 1892 (>99%) ------------------------------------------------ Flower Joseph 88 Watford 3a 499 Burial County Hertfordshire Place Rickmansworth Church name St Mary the Virgin Register type Parish Register Register entry number 331 Burial date 06 Jan 1892 Burial person forename Joseph Burial person surname FLOWER Person age 88 Burial person abode Rickmansworth (below perhaps his Daughter, who Married Samuel Lock... County Hertfordshire Place St Albans Church name Abbey Register type Parish Register Register entry number 773 Baptism date 26 Feb 1823 Person forename Ann Person sex F Father forename Joseph Mother forename Ann Father surname FLOWER https://www.findagrave.com/ (above is often useful for United States)
Member Since: April 2004 Posts: 17,958 Send Message	Chris Ho :)	Report	25 Sep 2019 07:11
	Would this be her Mother, by any chance... Chris :) Deaths Dec 1872 (>99%) ------------------------------------------------------------- READING Mary 33 Berkhampstead 3a 257 1871 Charlotte Cooke Head - Female 80 1791 - Essex, England Mary Reading General Servant - Female 31 1840 - Buckinghamshire, England (Chesham) Hatfield Road, St Peter, St Albans, Hertfordshire (and below her Sister) Marriages Sep 1868 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------- READING Philip Amersham 3a 576 READING Sophia Amersham 3a 576 1871 Philip Reading Head - Male 30 (Draper and Plait Dealer) 1841 - Buckinghamshire, England (Chesham) Sophia Ann Reading Wife - Female 26 1845 - Buckinghamshire, England (Chesham) Lilian Ada Reading Daughter - Female 2 1869 - Buckinghamshire, England Annie Sophia Reading Daughter - Female 0 1871 - Buckinghamshire, England High Street, Berkhamstead, Berkhampstead, Hertfordshire Birth READING, SOPHIA ANN FOWLER GRO Reference: 1845 D Quarter in AMERSHAM Volume 06 Page 293 Birth READING, MARY FOWLER GRO Reference: 1838 D Quarter in AMERSHAM Volume 06 Page 272

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