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going round in circles, your help apreciated
my dads half brother walter patchett 1906 bramley - 1922 leeds
married bertha wilson 1939 wharfdale

1939
12 Greentop, Pudsey M.B., Yorkshire (West Riding), England
Walter Patchett 18 Mar 1906 Male Gas Worker (Heavy) Married 30 1
Bertha (Mary) Patchett 25 Jul 1918 Female Twister Textile Married 30 2
The record for this person is officially closed ---- daughter mary
Maria Patchett 28 Jan 1880 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 304 --- walters mother

on the image the name bertha has xx through and mary overwritten

cannot seem to find a birth or death that fits with her bd 25/07/198

thanks
maddie

Can’t see a birth to back up your assertion that the closed record is their daughter

What is the relevance of 1922 Leeds?

it was in 1944, won't post as may well be living
walters death record 1992 leeds, sorry a typo

He can’t have died in 1922

And someone born in 1944 would not be on the 1939 register!

good point, they only had the one daughter that i am aware of
haven't found any other births

Several Patchett/Wilson births if you look at freebmd!

when they used to visit when i was a child only came with i daughter

Do you have the marriage certificate - what is Bertha's alleged status - Single or widowed ? (Bit young to have been married and widowed, but not impossible)

Who does she name as her Father?

Could she have had an illegitimate child pre marriage

The closed record could be anyone born post 1917, whose death has not been picked up - visitor, young relative, evacuee etc.

Up until when do you remember them visiting to give an idea of when after that deaths might have occurred

Was that change from Bertha to Mary made in 1973 !

hi greyghost, sorry dont have marriage cert but miight need it
met my cousin in the 1880's believe my aunt and uncle still around then
haven't seen her sice then

just thought withe 1939 birth date i could find her

have found this but it would have been a quick reg
WILSON, BERTHA YOUEL
GRO Reference: 1918 S Quarter in BARNSLEY Volume 09C Page 430

no marriage for parents so far

If that 1939 birthdate is correct on the 1939, this is the only Bertha -
at least it's the right County !

Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page
Births Sep 1918 (>99%)
Wilson Bertha Youel Barnsley 9c 430

EDIT - snap! Can't find a marriage either.

There are numerous Mary Wilson's but just looking at the marriage RD, there is this -
Births Sep. 1918
Wilson Mary Fairburn Wharfedale 9a 172

??Siblings

Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page
Births Mar 1917 (>99%)
Wilson Queenie Youel Barnsley 9c 457
Births Sep 1918 (>99%)
Wilson Bertha Youel Barnsley 9c 430
Births Mar 1924 (>99%)
Wilson Doreen Youel Barnsley 9c 432
Births Jun 1930 (>99%)
Wilson Sylvia Youel Barnsley 9c 451
Births Mar 1934 (>99%)
Wilson June Youel Barnsley 9c 395

will look into both of those
bit of a jump from mary to bertha
can' find a death either

Bit of a jump, but that's what the alteration on the 1939 shows

? Queenie's marriage
Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page
Marriages Jun 1938 (>99%)
Bramley Charles A Webster Barnsley 9c 795
INGHAM Percy Wilson Barnsley 9c 795
Webster Florence Bramley Barnsley 9c 795
Wilson Queenie Ingham Barnsley 9c 795

---------------------------------------
and the family 1939 - (not that it helps with parents) Dodworth is a suburb of Barnsley)

11 Hawthorne Crescent, Dodworth U.D., Yorkshire (West Riding)
(5 people)
First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule Sub Number
Percy Ingham 24 Jan 1915 Male Colliery Hewer (Heavy Worker) Married 181 1
Queenie Ingham 08 Feb 1917 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 181 2
Hannah Ingham 02 May 1883 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Widowed 181 3
Ada Ingham 22 Nov 1902 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Single 181 4
Florence Chari?Sworth (Ingham) 24 Oct 1918 Female Wool Drawing Worsted Mill Single 181 5

You probably have this re Walter - and it's no help with Bertha, I know:

Walter Patchett
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Walter Patchett
Age in 1911: 5
Estimated birth year: abt 1906
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Bramley, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Armley and Bramley
County/Island: Yorkshire-West Riding
Country: England
Street address: 10 Coniston St Stanningley <<<<<<<<<<<<<
Registration district: Bramley
Registration District Number: 499
Sub-registration district: Bramley
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Piece: 26865
Household Members:
Name Age
John Patchett 33
Maria Patchett 31
Herbert Patchett 11
Fred Patchett 9
Harry Patchett 7
Walter Patchett 5


His marriage to Bertha was not his first marriage:

Walter Patchett
in the West Yorkshire, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1813-1935
Name: Walter Patchett
Event Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 23 May 1931
Marriage Place: Holbeck, St Matthew and New Wortley, St John the Baptist, West Yorkshire, England
Parish as it Appears: Holbeck, St Matthew and New Wortley, St John the Baptist
Father: John Patchett
Spouse: Francis Winifred Kerfoot

Walter, age 25, bachelor, address 10 Coniston Street - same as in 1911.



Francis Winifred Patchett
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Francis Winifred Patchett
Gender: Female
Marital status: Divorced <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Birth Date: 8 Apr 1909
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 17
Residence Place: Leeds, Yorkshire (West Riding), England
Occupation: Unpaid Domestic Duties
Schedule Number: 121
Sub Schedule Number: 2
Enumeration District: KGWX
Registration district: 501-2
Household Members:
Name
William Britton
Francis Winifred Patchett
Marlene Britton


The daughter Marlene, born 1939, is Frances and William's child - mms Kerfoot.
Birth registered as both Patchett and Britton.
She married in 1957.

well you learn something new everyday, i didn't know he had been married before nor divorced

i wonder if my dad knew as i understand it they never met until just before dads marriage
thank you

Walter and Frances had twin daughters in 1935, Alma and Dorothy.
So one of them will be the closed record in 1939.

Alma married in Bradford in 1952.

Can't see anything for Dorothy - so far.
Assuming it's Alma in 1939, where's Dorothy?

oh dear, like father like son, both had 2 familes

Aha!

Here's Dorothy in 1939 - maybe [EDIT **** No, I'm wrong! }

Dorothy Patchett
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Dorothy Patchett
[L. Fanning] - alternative name added by Ancestry.
Gender: Female
Marital status: Single
Birth Date: x Jul 1937 [ but I think image says 1935 . EDIT - NO IT DOESN'T]
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 28 Elmdale Cres
Residence Place: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Occupation: Under School age
Schedule Number: 161
Sub Schedule Number: 3
Enumeration District: QCDN
Registration district: 384/11
Household Members:
Name
Thomas Patchett - 26 Feb. 1901
Violet Dobb - xx xxx 1927 [married John Wilson in Birmingham in 1944]
Dorothy Patchett




If the alternative name of Fanning is correct, then she married in Bournemouth in 1958 - though the marriage record gives her a hitherto unmentioned middle initial of L.



**** EDIT:

NO, I'm wrong.

Dorothy L Patchett was born in 1937 in Birmingham

thanks for trying
much appreciated

walters ist wife francis winifred kerfoot born 08/09/1909
on 1939 she is divorced and went on to marry in 1947

Name: John Graham
Registration Date: Apr 1947
[May 1947]
[Jun 1947]
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration district: Leeds
Inferred County: Yorkshire West Riding
Spouse: Frances W Patchett Or Kerfoot
Volume Number: 2c
Page Number: 850

as she is on the1939 register there must be a death recorded but i just can't find it

any help appreciated thank you