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Thanks This is going to be a tricky one as I don't know if he was married so that I could have got his marriage certificate. The William Smith I am looking for had 4 children born between 1907-1911 (very close together) His Daughter named Florence Louisa Smith born 1910 reportedly informed her own Daughter that William Smith died on the Titanic. It is too difficult to find the right Florence Louisa Smith to get her birth certificate as there are to many possibilities and her siblings also have regular names. Thanks Pam

What are the names of Florence Louisa's siblings?

Does her daughter know where Florence was born?

There were only four Florence Louisa Smiths born in England/Wales 1909-11;, and only one actually in 1910.
I expect we could figure it out if we knew the siblings' names.

(Well, that's assuming they had the same mother.)


The one in 1910:

Births Mar 1910 (>99%)
SMITH Florence Louisa Dewsbury 9b 543


GRO version for mms:

SMITH, FLORENCE mms CARTWRIGHT
GRO Reference: 1910 M Quarter in DEWSBURY Volume 09B Page 543



EDIT:
Well, having said that, there are no other Smith/Cartwright births in Dewsbury 1907-11.

But the other siblings' names might help.

That Dewsbury Florence is with her grand-parents in 1911.

I know Dewsbury's a long way from Birmingham - but the records only say William was born in Birmingham, not where he might have been a couple of years before he died. - so you never know:

Florence Louisa Smith
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Florence Louisa Smith
Age in 1911: 1
Estimated birth year: abt 1910
Relation to Head: Granddaughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Dewsbury, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Dewsbury
County/Island: Yorkshire-West Riding
Country: England
Street address: 32 Brunswick St Westboro Dewsbury
Registration district: Dewsbury
Registration District Number: 503
Sub-registration district: Dewsbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 19
Piece: 27312
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary Jane Cartwright 58
Hannah Mary Cartwright 27
Lily Cartwright 22
Albert Roberts 53
Florence Louisa Smith 1


???

Florence Louise Smith
in the England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name: Florence Louise Smith
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 20 Mar 1910
Baptism Place: Dewsbury Moor, Cleckheaton, York, England
Father: William Edward Smith
Mother: Louisa Smith
FHL Film Number: 1657173

No, forget that Florence.

This looks like her parents' marriage - your William would only have been 12 or 13 in 1898

Marriages Jun 1898 (>99%)
Cartwright Louisa Dewsbury 9b 1266
SMITH William Edward Dewsbury 9b 1266

If William wasn't married to Florence's mother, then her birth may have been registered under her mother's name.

Which is a depressing thought!

If she was definitely born in 1910, and her name was registered as Florence Louisa, then she wasn't registered as Smith.

The Dewsbury child is the only one fitting those parameters.

The Grandaughter of Florence Louisa Smith says she was born 15th October 1909 in Stepney but shes not positive it was Stepney On the marriage certificate for Florence on 13th October 1934 her age is given as 23 but as it was only 2 days before her birthday it may be rounded up Her Fathers name is given as William Henry Smith Ship Stoker deceased Her brothers were Albert 1907/8 William 1909 Florence Louisa 1909/10 and Frederick 1911 I would have expected to find at least the 3 older children with their Mother on 1911 Census They are a Bedfordshure based family Also the Grandaughter says Florence Louisa Smith was Jewish Thanks Pam

If the birth date is correct, and if she was registered as Smith, then she was only registered as Florence, not Florence Louisa.

There's this birth in the right reg district for Stepney - but earlier than October - and no matching siblings' births:

SMITH, FLORENCE LOUISA mms FARROW
GRO Reference: 1909 S Quarter in MILE END OLD TOWN Volume 01C Page 340


There are these possibilities, just as Florence - but not in Stepney:

Births Dec 1909 (>99%)
SMITH Florence Camberwell 1d 840 - mms Randall
SMITH Florence Pancras 1b 61 - mms Smith (unmarried)
SMITH Florence Kensington 1a 109 - mms Green

Also this one on FreeBMD, but not showing up on GRO site, so don't know mms:

SMITH Florence Camberwell 1d 770

Just for ref I assume this is Florence under married name

Florence L Bonham 1910 15 Oct 1910 Female Unpaid Domestic Du Married 231 1

Well, if she was born 1910, and not 1909, and was registered as Smith, there's this birth:

Births Dec 1910
SMITH Florence L Wandsworth 1d 696 - middle name Louise, mms Bevan

But no, that's not her.
The only other Smith/ Bevan birth in London 1907-11 is a Samuel John.

No Albert or William.

But the children may not have all had the same mother ??



ADDED:
There's an Albert Smith mms Bevan - but in West Derby;

SMITH, ALBERT mms BEVAN
GRO Reference: 1908 D Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 313

Florence was definitely born 15th October She died in 2002 in Bedfordshire

Following up a new lead . Another relative has said that a half sibling of Florence Louisa Smith is Frederick William Wildman Smith . I have a copy of his Birth certificate for 7th March 1911 Riseley Bedfordshire. There is no Fathers name given. . Mothers details given as Clara Smith no occupation.. Birth was registered on 10th April 1911 by the Mother Clara Smith. I also have a copy of the marriage certificate for Frederick William Wildman Smith to Edith Violet Ashwell on 17th December 1932 In Luton Bedfordshire. ,.No Fathers name is given for Frederick. Address for Frederick given as 31 Stratford Road Luton . Occupation Sheet Metal Polisher. I was hoping this would reveal the Fathers details of Florence Louisa Smith but its still not happening . Any help is much appreciated Thanks Pam

Clara in 1911 son not named yet

1911 Census For England & Wales
Gold Street Riseley Bedford, Riseley, Bedfordshire, England


William Smith Head Married Male 63 1848 Farm Labourer Bedford Riseley
Ruth Smith Wife Married Female 64 1847 - Bedford County Keysoe Parish
Harry Smith Son Single Male 27 1884 Farm Bedford County Riseley Parish
Clara Smith Daughter Single Female 19 1892 - Bedford County Riseley Parish
Cyril Walter Smith Grandson Single Male 1 1910 - Bedford Riseley
N K - Grandson - Male 0 1911 - Bedford Riseley ( one month on image)


SMITH, CYRIL WALTER -
GRO Reference: 1909 J Quarter in BEDFORD Volume 03B Page 276

In 1901 there was another grandchild with them also, but this one has no father's name either

SMITH, BEATRICE -
GRO Reference: 1894 M Quarter in BEDFORD Volume 03B Page 305

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Gold Street, Riseley, Bedford, Bedfordshire, England


William Smith Head Married Male 52 1849 Farm Labourer Riseley, Bedfordshire, England
Ruth Smith Wife Married Female 53 1848 - Keysoe, Bedfordshire, England
Harry Smith Son Single Male 19 1882 Farm Labourer Riseley, Bedfordshire, England
Tom Smith Son Single Male 15 1886 Farm Labourer Riseley, Bedfordshire, England
Clara Smith Daughter - Female 9 1892 - Riseley, Bedfordshire, England
Beatrice Smith Grand Daughter - Female 6 1895 - Riseley, Bedfordshire, England

Beatrice Smith daughter to one of the older sisters I assume


1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Gold Street, Riseley, Bedford, Bedfordshire, England


William Smith Head Married Male 44 1847 Farm Labourer Bedfordshire, England
Bertha Smith Wife Married Female 42 1849 Washerwoman Bedfordshire, England ( Ruth on image)
Annie Smith Daughter - Female 16 1875 Mothers Assistant Bedfordshire, England
Elizabeth Smith Daughter - Female 13 1878 Lace Maker Bedfordshire, England
Edith Smith Daughter - Female 12 1879 Scholar Bedfordshire, England
Harry Smith Son - Male 9 1882 Scholar Bedfordshire, England
Tom Smith Son - Male 6 1885 Scholar Bedfordshire, England
Ethel Smith Daughter - Female 3 1888 - Bedfordshire, England

The daughter Edith married Edward William Brock in 1905 - so she's not Florence's mother.

Edith Smith
in the Liverpool, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1932
Name: Edith Smith
Gender: Female
Marriage Age: 26
Event Type: Marriage
Birth Year: abt 1879
Marriage Date: 8 Jun 1905
Marriage Place: Everton, St Cuthbert, Lancashire, England
Father: William Smith
Spouse: Albert Edward Broth

Edith's address: Gold Street, Riseby.

Florence isn't Elizabeth's daughter either - Elizabeth married in 1902.

Elizabeth Smith
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Elizabeth Smith
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1878
Relation to Head: Servant
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Riseley, Bedfordshire, England
Civil Parish: Bedford St Paul
Ecclesiastical parish: Bedford St Martin
Town: Bedford
County/Island: Bedfordshire
Country: England
Registration district: Bedford
Sub-registration district: Bedford and Kempston
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors:
Piece: 1489
Folio: 81
Page Number: 35
Household schedule number: 209
Household Members:
Name Age
Margaret F Monsele 40
Ralph R J Monsele 16
Gladys A Monsele 9
Jon K F Monsele 8
Robinette Monsele 6/12
Elizabeth Smith 23
Laura J Wilkinson 17


Marriages Dec 1902
Jefferies Charles Bedford 3b 799
Smith Elizabeth Bedford 3b 799


Elizabeth Jefferies
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Elizabeth Jefferies
Age in 1911: 33
Estimated birth year: abt 1878
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Riseley, Bedfordshire, England
Civil Parish: Bedford
County/Island: Bedfordshire
Country: England
Street address: 4 St Leonards Street, Bedford
Marital status: Married
Years Married: 8
Estimated Marriage Year: 1903
Registration district: Bedford
Registration District Number: 174
Sub-registration district: Bedford and Cardington
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Household schedule number: 124
Piece: 8866
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Jefferies 31
Elizabeth Jefferies 33
Charles Jefferies 5

Ethel Smith is still single in 1911:


Ethel Smith
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Ethel Smith
Age in 1911: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1888
Relation to Head: Servant
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Reseley, Bedford, England
Civil Parish: Wollaton
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Country: England
Street address: Wollaton
Marital status: Single
Occupation: Feneral Servant (domestic)
Registration district: Basford
Registration District Number: 429
Sub-registration district: Beeston
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Piece: 20434
Household Members:
Name Age
Ferdrnctz William Brown 34
Anny Warner Brown 24
Thomas Birch Brown 33
Ethel Smith 23

I still don't see a likely Florence Smith in 1911.

EDIT:
But I'm talking rubbish (again).

Just because Frederick William Wildman Smith's a half-brother of Florence, -
it doesn't mean Florence's mother is anything to do with Clara's family.
She's probably someone totally unrelated, who also had a relationship with William Henry Smith.

Still can't find a convincing birth for Florence, and still feel her birth must have been registered under her mother's unknown name.

Thanks everyone. A relative also said there was a step child or /half sister named Beatrice. Will keep trying to find m ore leads. Pam

Annie Smith the eldest daughter , mother was previously Woolston

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Gold Street, Riseley, Bedford, Bedfordshire, England


William Smith Head Married Male 33 1848 Ag Labr Riseley, Bedfordshire, England
Ruth Smith Wife Married Female 34 1847 - Keysoe, Bedfordshire, England
William Woolston Stepson Single Male 7 1874 Scholar Keysoe, Bedfordshire, England
Annie Smith Daughter Single Female 5 1876 Scholar Riseley, Bedfordshire, England
Elizabeth Smith Daughter Single Female 3 1878 Scholar Riseley, Bedfordshire, England
Edith Smith Daughter Single Female 2 1879 - Riseley, Bedfordshire, England


Not that this helps at all, just trying to join the dots :-)

Hi again. Some new details from relative of Florence Louisa Smith. , she lived at
26 Brereton road. Bedford. . Her brother Frederick worked for the Royal Mint.. Florence Louisa Smith's Mother lived at Winthrop Street /of Brady Street in the Jewish section in the East End Of London. Thanks Pam