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I am a complete dead end with my husbands great grandparents and would love it if someone could help!
My hubbys grandfather is John Thomas Carr, born 1869 in Longton, Stoke-on-Trent. His birth certificate shows that his father was Samuel Carr and his mother was Hannah Carr (formerly Worthington). Samuel Carr died of consumption 3 months after John was born. His death was registered by Hannah. This is where my trail ends though...........I have been unable to locate a birth certificate for either Samuel or Hannah nor a wedding certificate. I can't find Hannahs death certificate - I bought one thinking it was hers, but the details don't match with the marriage to Samuel so I think it may be the wrong Hannah. I cant find anything in the parish records either. I can't find them in any census, I have no idea if they were from Stoke originally or if they moved to Stoke once married. I am at a complete loss and would love it if someone could point me in the right direction!
(I have tracked John Thomas through the census, he was in the workhouse in 1881 which makes me think maybe Hannah had died by that time?)

Thank you in advance <3

Have you considered that Hannah might have re-married?

What was the address on Samuel’s death cert?

So, is this him in 1881, shown to have been born in Longton. How are you certain this is him? How have you calculated the ages of Samuel and Hannah?

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Stoke upon Trent Workhouse, Penkhull, Stoke upon Trent, Staffordshire, England

Year of census: 1891

First name(s) John
Last name Carr
Relationship Pauper
Marital status Single
Sex Male
Age 12
Birth year 1869
Birth town Longton
Birth town as transcribed LONGTON
Birth county Staffordshire
Birth county as transcribed STAFFORDSHIRE
Birth place England
Occupation Scholar
House name Stoke Upon Trent Workhouse
Street Penkhull
Town -
Parish Stoke upon Trent
County Staffordshire
Country England
Registration district Stoke upon Trent
Archive reference RG11
Piece number 2729
Folio 108

I had considered that, but that meant she would have abandoned her son in order to remarry......which seems awful! (though admittedly not unheard of)
The address on the death certificate is 76 Stafford Street. Yeah, he was 23, cause of death is listed as consumption and diarrhea :(

greyghost - I am almost certain that that is my husbands grandfather. I can't find him in the 1871 census - unless he's the one I found age 3 living with the Bromleys - but am pretty certain that thats him in the 1881 census in the workhouse :-(

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname: Order:
CARR, JOHN THOMAS WORTHINGTON Order
GRO Reference: 1869 M Quarter in STOKE UPON TRENT Volume 06B Page 260

How do you know Hannah's age?

Depending on how the question was asked, I have seen it that a child is registered with the "maiden name" of the Mother's Mother.

and also that a maiden name was made up for respectability

or that a Mother had been previously married so her maiden name wasn't that of the name she married under.

If that is John Thomas in 1881 in the workhouse, where is he in 1871 - maybe his Mum 'remarried' or took up with someone else and they are living under that surname?
If that relationship failed for whatever reason, maybe there was no choice but the workhouse?

Have you been able to track the workhouse records, there might be more info. if you can.

For our reference, is he boarding with a family named Davies in 1891?

Also, if Hannah re-married the new husband may not have been prepared to take on another man’s child

Who does John name as his father when he marries?

This looks to be the same John Carr as in the 1881 census, born Longton

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Mays Street, Stoke upon Trent, Staffordshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Thomas Davies Head Married Male 50 1841 General Railway Labourer Shropshire, England
Ann E Davies Wife Married Female 50 1841 - Staffordshire, England
Jesse Davies Son Single Male 23 1868 General Railway Labourer Staffordshire, England
John T Carr Boarder Single Male 22 1869 Potters Printer b Longton, Staffs

He is an Earth Potters Printer on the 1891 census as ErikaH said he is boarding with a Thomas Davies and his family.

I can't rememeber how I came to Hannahs age to be honest! I found it somewhere but can't remember where....

I did think she'd maybe remarried and they were all together, but I can't find them in the census as a family unit, remarried or otherwise. :-(

Poss death

Name: John T Carr
Death Age: 67
Birth Date: abt 1869
Registration Date: Jun 1936
Registration district: Stoke on Trent
Inferred County: Staffordshire
Volume: 6b
Page: 152

I believe that that is John Carr in the 1891 census, and I believe he's still boarding with a different family (Littletons) in the 1901 census. I have him definitively in the 1911 census.

Yes, that is his death Mel fairy godmther :-)

Record Transcription:
1911 Census For England & Wales

24 America Street Hanley Stoke on Trent, Hanley, Staffordshire & Worcestershire, England

John Thomas Carr's Household Members
Members that resided in the household at the time of the census.
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
John Thomas Carr Head Married Male 41 1870 Potter's Printer Longton Staff
Elizabeth Carr Wife Married Female 21 1890 - Hanley Staff
May Carr Daughter - Female 2 1909 - Hanley Staff
John Thomas Carr Son - Male 0 1911 - Hanley Staff

Thats him safc, the children are my husbands aunt and uncle :-)

?????????

1871 Census

Name: John Carr
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Relation: Son
Father's name: Samuel Carr
Mother's name: Hannah Carr
Gender: Male
Where born: St Helens, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Windle
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: St Helen
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Prescot
Sub-registration district: St Helens
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Household schedule number: 80
Piece: 3862
Folio: 92
Page Number: 17
Household Members:
Name Age
Samuel Carr 35 1836 Ireland
Hannah Carr 39 1832 Ireland
John Carr 12 1859 Lancashire
Hannah Carr 9 1862 Lancashire
Ellen Curley 67 boarder 1804 Ireland

Of the Hannah Carrs that have married, I can't find any of them that are living with a John Thomas - Carr or otherwise. Again to my mind this leaves 2 options - she either left her son to remarry or she died before 1881......but I have no idea which! :-(

unfortunately Mel, I'm certain that not them - John was born in 1869 - Samuel died the same year aged 23 :-(

I wonder if this could be Hannah and interestingly there is a Penelope Carr widow further down the page.

1861 England Census

Name: Hannah Worthington
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: 1845
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Rocester, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: Kingsley
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation: Farm Servant

Registration district: Cheadle
Sub-registration district: Ipstones
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 91
Piece: 1951
Folio: 70
Page Number: 17
Household Members:
Name Age
George Beardmore 42
Olive Beardmore 29
Martha Elizabeth Beardmore 6
Catherine Beardmore 5
George Beardmore 3
Anne Beardmore 1
John Beardmore 17
Joseph Goodwin 14
Mary Beardmore 17
Hannah Worthington 16

This is the family

Name: Penelope Carr
Age: 59
Estimated Birth Year: 1802
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Wingsley, Staffordshire, England
[Kingsley, Staffordshire, England]
Civil Parish: Kingsley
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image
Registration district: Cheadle
Sub-registration district: Ipstones
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 93
Piece: 1951
Folio: 70
Page Number: 17
Household Members:
Name Age
Penelope Carr 59 1802 Widow
James Carr 23
George Carr 18

Following on from M F G's post - this looks be the same Hannah in 1851

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Ridding, Rocester, Uttoxeter, Staffordshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
James Worthington Head Married Male 30 1821 Miner In Coal Journeymn Butterton, Staffordshire, England
Elizabeth Worthington Wife Married Female 27 1824 - Staffordshire, England
George Worthington Son - Male 8 1843 Scholar Staffordshire, England
Hannah Worthington Daughter - Female 5 1846 - Rocester, Staffordshire, England
Abel Worthington Son - Male 2 1849 - Rocester, Staffordshire, England
Joseph Worthington Son - Male 1 1850 - Rocester, Staffordshire, England
Charles Birch Lodger Unmarried Male 9 1842 Ag Labr Rocester, Staffordshire, England