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https://billiongraves.com/grave/Lilian-Irene-Kenyon/5389425

Her son John J married a Dorothy Garvey and died in Leigh in 1985

you said lillian had a son who died sydney george i cant see a birth for him in 1927
found a death

Death of Sydney

Deaths Sep 1939
Ellam Sydney G 12 Leigh 8c 252

Kenyon Sydney G 12 Leigh 8c 252

from FMP ..............

newspaper report of Sydney's death

...... into the canal at Astley, Tyldesley, and was drowned, was not solved at the inquest at Tyldesley yesterday. The boy, Sydney George Ellam, lived with his mother and stepfather at Banks Terrace, Hindley Green, and was described by the stepfather as a nervous
8 July 1939 - Liverpool Daily Post - Liverpool, Lancashire,

from image:-

Mystery of a Canal Tragedy

How a twelve years old Hindley Green (Wigan) boy got into the canal at Astley, Tyldesley, and was drowned, was not solved at the inquest at Tyldesley yesterday.

The boy, Sydney George Ellam, lived with his mother and stepfather at Banks Terrace, Hindley Green, and was described by the stepfather as a nervous and backward boy. He was told that arrangements were being made for him to attend a residential school and had appeared to worry about it. The stepfather could not give any explanation how the boy came to be in the canal.

The Coroner returned a verdict that death was due to drowning, but there was no evidence to show how he got into the water.

Hi Alison, Malyon and safc. safc kindly put the dates birth and death dates on here thank you. Edward can't be the grandfather as he died in 1902 aged 49 and Emma the mother was 50 in 1911 census, I believe he was Emma's husband as she is a widow and she became pregnant and put her dead husband as the father possibly. I will get the birth cert and see what that says.
safc thank you for the link to the grave interesting that sydney is down as Elam and Kenyon on his death.I now need to find Sydney George birth in 1928.
Thanks all

Wrong first names - but I'll post it in case:

Births Dec 1927 (>99%)
Ellam Colin E ( mms Ellam) W.Derby 8b 696


I don't see any obvious records for that child later on, though of course he might be a closed record in 1939, and could be still alive.

thanks ArgyllGran She could always have put a different name, and called him Sydney. His death cert might be an idea as well.
Gail

If correctly aged 12 at death and accident report, surely he would have been born c June/July 1926 - June/July 1927. Inquest held 7th July 1939, when was actual death date. He could have been just 12, nearly 13 or anywhere in-between, but would still make earliest birth around July 1926?? Or are my Maths wrong.

And he wouldn't have been on the 1939 register, as it was compiled after his death.

The birth could have been unregistered, registered under any name or in any part of the country unfortunately or even not transcribed. If the reported age at death was wrong ...........

You always used to be able to give a birth year to GRO with basic details and they would search 1 year either side, so covering a 3 year period

if thats her birth in 1905 there is no father named on the reg

Lilian Maud I Ellam
England and Wales Birth Registration Index, 1837-2008

birth registration: 1905 Colchester, Essex, England

Q4. If I don’t have the index reference number what will happen?
If you do not have the GRO index reference, for historic birth and death records why not try using the GRO online historic indexes?

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/most_customers_want_to_know.asp#OnlineIndex12

If you are unable to trace or do not have the index reference you may still apply online for any event which took place on or after 1st July 1837 to 6 months from the current date (for marriages this period is extended to 18 months) provided you have sufficient information to identify the entry. A 3 year search for the index reference will be carried out. You should supply the exact date of event if you have it. If you don't have the exact date, enter 01/01/YYYY and we will search the specified year and one year either side. If you do not provide an index reference number, your application will take up to 15 working days to process. There is a separate policy for events which have taken place in the last 50 years and full identifying information must be provided (see Q7 under “Important information on delivery times and policies.”)
--------------
I had one that wasn't found and got my money back !

Lancashire archives holds the inquest file for Sydney, which is an open record, I wonder if it may give more details about him? But that would probably involve a visit to Preston unless they can do a lookup for you.

Lancashire Archives
Level Item
Reference number CR/18/6/1939
Title Sydney G Ellam
Date 7 Jul 1939
Description Inquest No: 4
Verdict: Misadventure
Access This material is available to view at Lancashire Archives. See our website or contact us for more details.
AccessStatus Open

is this the marriage of emma but in 1911 census she is called emily

Marriages Dec 1904 (>99%)
Ellam Edward Scarbro' 9d 679 Scan available - click to view
Gibson Emma Scarbro' 9d 679

and why would her maiden name gibson not be on the birth reg of lillian

greyghost thanks for the info on the GRO useful to know.Also he could have been nearly 13
Thanks Malyon for the no father info.

Maybe Emma Ellam was never married or the Edward death in 1902 is her husband and Lilian used that name to save face when she married. I will see if my friend has an more info on Sydney. Her mum Lilian would never talk about her family.
Thanks Everyone

sydney could be collin e ellam could be sydney as i see no marriage or death for a

collin e ellam
Births Dec 1927 (>99%)
Ellam Colin E Ellam W.Derby 8b 696

I've already suggested that, Malyon, but GG has pointed out that dates indicate Sydney's birth was more likely in 1926.

or this one
Births Sep 1926
Lewis Sidney H Ellam Wolverhampton 6b 1004

Thank you all for your replies. I have visited my elderly friend this afternoon and she has found the birth cert for Lilian, sorry I had no idea she had it, it does confirm her date of birth of 22nd Feb 1905. the mother is Emily S......... Ellam. I can't read the middle name. The address is Popes or Polular Lane Colchester
Someone did some research years ago for my friend and has mentioned the name Lucy Allen and Rosina Allen, now in 1911 Lilian was shown as Lilian Allen. The address for Lucy is 7 Artillery St Colchester.
Also Sydney George died on the 3/4th July 1939 as she has the death cert but no date of birth just the age of 12 shown, I am inclined to think she kept Sydney away from officials and any family.
I have looked for an Emily s born in Devon in 1858 to 1862 and a few have second names that being with S and are a little odd so I will cross reference some of those and see what I can find,

Thanks again

the emily in the 1911 census with lillian i dont think she is her mother
dont think she would have had a first child at her age could be her grandmother

malyon she would have been 44 in 1905 possibility at being a mother. The middle name of lillian's mother looks like Gertrude. there are 2 addresses on the cert one is for the informant E G Ellam of 14 Popes Lane and the other is mother Emily Gertrude of 8 Water Lane bit odd?