Find Ancestors

Hi i am looking for my dads side of the family . names are below of who i would love to find births etc and service records if any are available. I am absolutley no good at this . im home educating my daughter and would love to do a proper family tree for her and my son.

William hardy i am looking for he isbfather to leslie charles hardy ( my grandad) jean hardy linda hardy ratmond hardy melvyn hardy and gweneth hardy . his wofe was gertrude goldsmith before marriage and becoming hardy who later remarried and became vanpelt. I know nothing about williams parents and siblings at all. I am aware they are romany desent . gertrudes family i am also looking for i am aware of her siblings stamley goldsmith and charlie goldsmith harry goldsmith and donald and im sure there are sisters also they are of welsh decent.
I would love for some help if anyone has any idea how to do this
Thankyou in advance

Helen do you have some rough dates and locations to go with those names please.

For a start perhaps? This is from freebmd.org.uk a really good site to start off looking for BMDs.


Marriages Sep 1939 (>99%)

Goldsmith Gertrude M Hardy King's L. 4b 1232
Hardy Charles W Goldsmith Kings' L. 4b 1232

Ordering the marriage cert ( from the GRO) should give you their fathers names.

Probable birth for Gertrude

Births Jun 1917 (>99%)
Goldsmith Gertrude M Fisher King's L 4b 397

1939 register

Goldsmith Household (10 People)
Norfolk Street, Corner Of Blackfriars Road , King's Lynn M.B., Norfolk, England

Gertrude M Van Pelt (Hardy) 17 May 1917 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Single 212 9 <<<<<

Gertrude M Goldsmith 05 Jan 1898 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Widowed 212 1
Harold Goldsmith 05 Apr 1921 Male Grocery Warehouseman Single 212 2
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Wyndham Goldsmith 14 Jan 1927 Male At School - 212 6
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.

Do you know when Charles William died?

?Print View image Add to tree
First name(s) CHARLES W
Last name HARDY
Gender Male
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1920
Age 39
Death quarter 1
Death year 1959
District Kings Lynn
County Norfolk
Volume 4B
Page 661
Country England
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Civil Deaths & Burials


Conflict World War 2
Record set Prisoners Of War 1715-1945
Archive reference WO 345/23
First name(s) Charles William
Last name Hardy
Year 1942
Birth year 1918
Rank Private Army
Regiment -
Residence Kings Lynn
Residence county Norfolk
Country of imprisonment Thailand
Nationality British
Prison camp or ship Thailand or 4D Camp
Archive The National Archives
Document details War Office: Japanese Index Cards of Allied Prisoners of War and Internees, Second World War, 1942-1945
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Subcategory Regimental & service records
Collections from Great Britain, UK

Mother Martha mary and father John William on this record, and Mrs Hardy wife at 6 st Annes street Kings Lynn? the age is a year or 2 out but that is not especially unusual.

Marriages Mar 1913 (>99%)
Hardy John W Southgate King's L. 4b 573
Southgate Martha M Hardy King's L. 4b 573

Births Jun 1913 (>99%)

Hardy George H Southgate King's L. 4b 549
Births Sep 1916 (>99%)
Hardy Dorothy M Southgate King's L. 4b 478
Births Mar 1920 (>99%)
Hardy William C Southgate King's L. 4b 640

If them below...

Chris :)

1911 (Find My Past)
John William Hardy Head Single Male 35 1876 North Woolham Carter Labourer
Martha Mary Hardy - Single Female 32 1879 Kings Lynn Norfolk Housekeeper
Valtine Rose Hardy Daughter - Female 9 1902 Kings Lynn Norfolk -
Violet May Southgate Daughter - Female 7 1904 Kings Lynn Norfolk
Alice Maud Southgate Daughter - Female 4 1907 Kings Lynn Norfolk
Baptist Yard Broad St Lynn, St Margarets, Norfolk

Birth
SOUTHGATE, VALENTINE ROSE -
GRO Reference: 1902 M Quarter in KING'S LYNN Volume 04B Page 310 Order

Birth
SOUTHGATE, VIOLET MAY -
GRO Reference: 1904 S Quarter in KINGS LYNN Volume 04B Page 316

Birth
SOUTHGATE, ALICE MAUD -
GRO Reference: 1907 M Quarter in KING'S LYNN Volume 04B Page 296


Deaths Jun 1937 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------
Hardy Martha M 57 King's L. 4b 329

The birth date of Gertrude M Van Pelt (Hardy) born 1917 on the 1939 register......is actually

3rd May 1917

Gertrude Mary Van-pelt in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Gertrude Mary Van-pelt
Death Age: 80
Birth Date: 3 May 1917
Registration Date: Jan 1998
Registration district: Kings Lynn
Inferred County: Norfolk
Register Number: 77B
District and Subdistrict: 6371B

Her second marriage.....

Gertrude M Hardy in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005
Name: Gertrude M Hardy
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1960
Registration district: King's Lynn
Inferred County: Norfolk
Spouse: Theodorus Van Pelt
Volume Number: 4b
Page Number: 1112

It seems Gertrude's parents married in Portsmouth......

Marriages Sep 1916 (>99%)
Fisher Gertrude M Goldsmith Portsmouth 2b 919
Goldsmith Joseph A Fisher Portsmouth 2b 919


Births Mar 1898 (>99%)
Fisher Gertrude Maud King's L. 4b 336


Gertrude M Goldsmith in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Gertrude M Goldsmith
Death Age: 60
Birth Date: abt 1898
Registration Date: Dec 1958
Registration district: Kings Lynn
Inferred County: Norfolk
Volume: 4b
Page: 513

Could be below...

Chris :)

Baptism
County Norfolk
Place King's Lynn
Church name (with link) St Nicholas
Register type (with link) Parish Register
Register entry number 1749
Birth date 5 Jan 1898
Baptism date 21 Jun 1901
Person forename Gertie Maud
Person sex F
Father forename Robert
Mother forename Mary Ann
Father surname FISHER
Person abode Trews Yd North Street
Father occupation Fisherman

https://www.freereg.org.uk/

(from above link, also below)


Ethel May FISHER Baptism 21 Jun 1901 (Born 2nd June 1901)

Charles Robert FISHER Baptism 21 Jun 1901 (Born 22nd Aug. 1899)

(couple of others also, different dates)

Hi guys

Umm i dont really have dates etc... I am aware that only one of gertrudes (my great nan ) is alive . why are some of the records closed ? What does this mean ? Strange thing is gertrude i thought was born in cardiff soith wales with the rest of her sibling stanley and charlie and harry etc.. This is so hard and confusing . when you dont know dates etc...
William c hardy my great grandad had a few childrne 5 i think of which one was leslie charles hardy my granddad . i know these details etc... I just camt seem to get started with this . also how do i get service records ? As i was aware of william being in the japanese prisoner war camp. This is all very interesting for me and my children .

Replying generally...

Closed records on the 1939 Register indicates that the named person was born after 1915 & that they had not died in England or Wales before 1992. It was a working document until then & formed the basis of the NHS numbering system. It is slowly being updated where names & dates of birth can be matched with the death indices.

WW2 Service Records are still with the MOD. You can purchase a copy for £30 using the following link.
http://www.veterans-uk.info/service_records/service_records.html

At some point you’ll probably be advised to purchase birth, marriage or death certificates. Use https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/
A paper copy will cost £9.25.
For Births: 1837 –1917 & Deaths: 1837 –1957, there is currently a trial where you can buy a PDF version sent via a link for £6.

I think this is Joseph A Goldsmith on the 1901 census..


1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Sir Lewis Street, Kings Lynn, Kings Lynn St Margaret, Norfolk, England

Joseph Goldsmith Head Married Male 48 1853 King's Lynn, Norfolk, England General Labourer
Annie Goldsmith Wife Married Female 26 1875 Norwich, Norfolk, England -
***Joseph A Goldsmith Son Single Male 6 1895 King's Lynn, Norfolk, England -
Frederick W Goldsmith Son Single Male 4 1897 King's Lynn, Norfolk, England -
Martha M M Goldsmith Daughter Single Female 1 1900 King's Lynn, Norfolk, England -
Elizabeth Dale Mother-In-Law Widow Female 59 1842 Norfolk, England -
Walter Dale Brother-In-Law Single Male 19 1882 King's Lynn, Norfolk, England General Labourer

His parents marriage.......

Marriages Dec 1894 (>99%)
Dale Annie King's L. 4b 919
Goldsmith Joseph King's L. 4b 919

Joseph birth was registered with his mothers maiden name....

DALE, JOSEPH ANDREW GOLDSMITH -
GRO Reference: 1894 D Quarter in KING'S LYNN Volume 04B Page 322

Probably born before the marriage.

Edit: Yes he was born before the marriage..........

Norfolk banns Transcription


Record set Norfolk Banns
Sex Male
Archive reference PD 39/59
First name(s) Joseph
Last name Goldsmith (Batchelor)
Banns year 1894
Marriage year 1894
Spouse's first name(s) Annie
Spouse's last name Dale (Spinster)
Parish King's Lynn, St Margaret with St Nicholas
Diocese Norwich
County Norfolk
Country England
Residence Kings Lynn
Marriage date 06 Nov 1894
Spouse's parish Kings Lynn
Archive Norfolk Record Office
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Marriages
Collections from England, Great Britain


Joseph on the 1911 census.....

Joseph Goldsmith in the 1911 England Census

Name: Joseph Goldsmith
Age in 1911: 16
Estimated birth year: abt 1895
Relation to Head: Inmate
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Kings Lynn, Norfolk
Civil Parish: Dartford
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Street address: Training Ship Warspite, River Thames, off Stone, near Greenhithe
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: sea Apprentice
Registration district: Dartford
Registration District Number: 43
Sub-registration district: Dartford
ED, institution, or vessel: 32-36
Piece: 3792

Joseph Goldsmith 16

Joseph Andrew Goldsmith in the Web: UK, Royal Naval Reserve Service Records Index, 1860-1955
Name: Joseph Andrew Goldsmith
Birth Date: 8 Sep 1894
Birth Place: King's Lynn, Norfolk
Date: 1908-1955
Service Number: SD 1109

Joseph A Goldsmith 1109/SD Deck Hand 1919 Royal Naval Reserve


British Merchant Navy, First World War Medal Cards 1914-1925 Transcription
First name(s) Joseph Andrew
Last name Goldsmith
Birth year 1894
Birth place as transcribed Kings Lynn
Birth place Kings Lynn
Birth county -
Birth country -
Year -
Link to site http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8019490
Source Registry of Shipping and Seamen: Index of First World War Mercantile Marine Medals and the British War Medal
Archive reference BT 351/1/52023
Medal type Merchant Navy Medal Index Cards, 1914-1920
Record set Britain, Campaign, Gallantry & Long Service Medals & Awards
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Subcategory Medal rolls and honours
Collections from Great Britain, UK None

(I can't find the death of Joseph)

Gertrude appears as Gertie/Gerty on the 1901 and 1911 census records...

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Trues Yard, North Street, Kings Lynn, Kings Lynn St Margaret, Norfolk, England

Robert Fisher Head Married Male 24 1877 Lynn, Norfolk, England Fisherman
Mary A Fisher Wife Married Female 25 1876 Lynn, Norfolk, England -
Gerty M Fisher Daughter Single Female 3 1898 Lynn, Norfolk, England -
Charles R Fisher Son Single Male 1 1900 Lynn, Norfolk, England -



1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
North Place North Street King's Lynn, St Margarets, Norfolk, England

Robert Fisher Head Married Male 33 1878 Kings Lynn Norfolk Fisherman
Mary Ann Fisher Wife Married Female 34 1877 Kings Lynn Norfolk -
Gertie Maud Fisher Daughter Single Female 13 1898 Kings Lynn Norfolk School
Charles Robert Fisher Son - Male 11 1900 Kings Lynn Norfolk School
Ethel May Fisher Daughter - Female 9 1902 Kings Lynn Norfolk School
Arthur Edward Fisher Son - Male 3 1908 Kings Lynn Norfolk -
Elsie May Fisher Daughter - Female 1 1910 Kings Lynn Norfolk -


FISHER, GERTRUDE MAUD MMN COOK
GRO Reference: 1898 M Quarter in KING'S LYNN Volume 04B Page 336

Parents marraige.....

Robert Fisher in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1837-1915
Name: Robert Fisher
Spouse: Mary Ann Cook
Registration Year: 1898
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: King's Lynn
Inferred County: Norfolk
Volume: 4b
Page: 483

Looks to be below...

Chris :)

Baptism
Place South Lynn
Church name (with link) All Saints
Register type (with link) Parish Register
Register entry number 638
Baptism date 24 Oct 1894
Person forename Joseph Andrew Goldsmith Dale
Person sex M
Father forename Joseph
Mother forename Annie
Father surname DALE
Person abode 11 Bridge Street
Father occupation Fireman


Place King's Lynn
Church name (with link) St Margaret
Register type (with link) Parish Register
Register entry number 359
Marriage date 6 Nov 1894
Groom forename Joseph
Groom surname GOLDSMITH
Groom condition Bachelor
Groom occupation Mariner
Groom abode Bridge street
Bride forename Annie
Bride surname DALE
Bride condition Spinster
Bride abode Bridge Street
Groom father forename Joseph
Groom father surname GOLDSMITH
Groom father occupation Fisherman deceased
Bride father forename Allen
Bride father surname DALE
Bride father occupation Labourer deceased
Witness1 forename Andrew
Witness1 surname MORRISON
Witness2 forename Mary
Witness2 surname MORRISON

https://www.freereg.org.uk/


(if her Father below)

Burial
County Norfolk
Place King's Lynn
Church name (with link) St Margaret
Register type (with link) Parish Register
Register entry number 535
Burial date 05 Jan 1889
Burial person forename Allen
Burial person surname DALE
Person age 47
Burial person abode Hospital


(possibly her below)

Birth
DALE, ANNIE (NORTON)
GRO Reference: 1874 D Quarter in NORWICH Volume 04B Page 133


Birth
DALE, ALLEN WALTER (NORTON)
GRO Reference: 1882 J Quarter in KING'S LYNN Volume 04B Page 340


Marriages Jun 1872 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------
Dale Allen Mitford 4b 509
Norton Elizabeth Mitford 4b 509

Father Robert on the 1939 Register......

Fisher Household (3 People) 16 Losinga Road , King's Lynn M.B., Norfolk, England

Robert Fisher 09 Sep 1876 Male Unfit For Work Married 86 1
Thomas H Fisher 30 Sep 1911 Male Farm Labourer Single 86 2
Irene S Jamieson (Duck) 16 Sep 1920 Female Land Worker Single 86 3


Births Dec 1911 (>99%)
Fisher Thomas H Cook King's L. 4b 527

Robert Fisher in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Robert Fisher
Death Age: 73
Birth Date: abt 1877
Registration Date: Mar 1950
Registration district: Kings Lynn
Inferred County: Norfolk
Volume: 4b
Page: 560

If you use below, you will see other Goldsmith names, with Mother Maiden Name Fisher, some are Cardiff...(first seems to be 1924 Charles E.)

https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Chris :)

(perhaps the family moved from Kings Lynn and then back again!, to be sure you really need to purchase Certificates)


Deaths Dec 1943 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------
GOLDSMITH Annie 68 King's L. 4b 383


Deaths Mar 1921 (>99%)
------------------------------------------------------
Goldsmith Joseph 66 King's L. 4b 347

I think this is Harold who appears on the 1939 Register...

Births Jun 1921 (>99%)
Goldsmith Simon H N Fisher King's L. 4b 521

He obviously preferred the name Harold (Probably his second name and who you referred to as "Harry"

Marriages Mar 1962 (>99%)
GOLDSMITH Harold S N MESSING King's L. 4b 1379
MESSING Helen M Goldsmith Kings L. 4b 1379


England & Wales deaths 1837-2007 Transcription
First name(s) HAROLD SIMON N
Last name GOLDSMITH
Gender Male
Birth day 5
Birth month 4
Birth year 1921
Age -
Death quarter 3
Death year 2006
District Kings Lynn
District number 6371B
Register number 103B
Entry number 274
Date of registration mm/yy 0906
County Norfolk
Country England
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Civil Deaths & Burials
Collections from Great Britain, England


Joseph A R Goldsmith in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1916-2005
Name: Joseph A R Goldsmith
Mother's Maiden Surname: Fisher
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1919
Registration district: King's Lynn
Inferred County: Norfolk
Volume Number: 4b
Page Number: 397


Joseph A R Goldsmith in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005
Name: Joseph A R Goldsmith
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1946
Registration district: King's Lynn
Inferred County: Norfolk
Spouse: Elizabeth M Wilson
Volume Number: 4b
Page Number: 1252


Joseph Andrew R Goldsmith in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Joseph Andrew R Goldsmith
Death Age: 60
Birth Date: 5 Jul 1919
Registration Date: Jun 1980
Registration district: Norwich
Inferred County: Norfolk
Volume: 10
Page: 1592


Births Sep 1922 (>99%)
Goldsmith Jessie E Fisher King's L. 4b 463

Jessie E Goldsmith in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005
Name: Jessie E Goldsmith
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1958
Registration district: King's Lynn
Inferred County: Norfolk
Spouse: Eric G Neal
Volume Number: 4b
Page Number: 1339

??

Eleanor Jessie Neal in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Eleanor Jessie Neal
Death Age: 65
Birth Date: 21 May 1922
Registration Date: Sep 1987
Registration district: Kings Lynn
Inferred County: Norfolk
Volume: 10
Page: 1366





The son Wyndham who appears on the 1939 Register was also born in Cardiff

Births Mar 1927 (>99%)
Goldsmith Wyndham R Fisher Cardiff 11a 576

Marriages Mar 1952 (>99%)
Goldsmith Wyndham R Hutson King's L. 4b 1211
Hutson Sheila M Goldsmith Kings L 4b 1211


England & Wales deaths 1837-2007 Transcription

First name(s) WYNDHAM RAYMOND
Last name GOLDSMITH
Gender Male
Birth day 14
Birth month 1
Birth year 1927
Age -
Death quarter 2
Death year 2006
District Kings Lynn
District number 6371B
Register number 103B
Entry number 005
Date of registration mm/yy 0506
County Norfolk
Country England
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Civil Deaths & Burials
Collections from Great Britain, England


Births Mar 1924 (>99%)
Goldsmith Charles E Fisher Cardiff


England & Wales deaths 1837-2007 Transcription

First name(s) CHARLES EDWARD
Last name GOLDSMITH
Gender Male
Birth day 26
Birth month 12
Birth year 1923
Age -
Death quarter 1
Death year 2000
District Kings Lynn
District number 6371B
Register number 85B
Entry number 004
Date of registration mm/yy 0300
County Norfolk
Country England
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Civil Deaths & Burials
Collections from Great Britain, England


Births Sep 1925 (>99%)
Goldsmith Stanley D Fisher Cardiff 11a 679


England & Wales deaths 1837-2007 Transcription

First name(s) STANELY DAVID
Last name GOLDSMITH
Gender Male
Birth day 26
Birth month 8
Birth year 1925
Age -
Death quarter 4
Death year 2002
District Kings Lynn
District number 6371B
Register number 92B
Entry number 272
Date of registration mm/yy 1102
County Norfolk
Country England
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Civil Deaths & Burials
Collections from Great Britain, England


Births Dec 1928 (>99%)
Goldsmith Ivy M Fisher Cardiff 11a 615

Deaths Dec 1928 (>99%)
Goldsmith Ivy M 0 Cardiff 11a 405

Son Donald was also born in Cardiiff

So between the births of Charles and Jessie....the family obviously moved to Cardiff for some reason.

Mother Gertrude Maud Goldsmith nee Fisher......obviously returned to Kings Lynn, Norfolk by the time of the 1939 Register and that is where she died in 1958.


Hi Helen, take the time to slowly work your way through all the information that has been provided for you on here........And hopefully, all will become clear.

Prickles :o))