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Sorry this is a bit long but is one of my brick-walls I am having an attempt at this year, requiring some research in Canada and USA

I am searching for Edwin Leonard Packer (my wife's grandfather) (b. 1891) and Arthur Packer (b. 1893), born Pontypridd, Wales

They were British Home children sent to Canada in 1901 on the Tunisian as Dr Barnardo's children.

I have not yet tried to get details from Barnardo's, this could be long winded and expensive.

There was tragedy in their family, as the boys father Edwin Packer committed suicide in 1896 (details in online newspapers), and their mother Mary Ann Packer (nee Middlecotte) then remarried twice, so the 2 boys ended up at Dr Barnado's home and shipped to Canada.

I have a marriage for Edwin in 1910 with Beatrice Rule (but not her death as Edwin remarried).

Edwin Married Marion (Maria?) McLean in 1913, Niagara Falls, Welland (certificate on line).

Edwin/Marion had children, Jessie (b.1914) and Daisy (b.1915), born in Niagara Falls USA (must have lived and worked in USA at some stage), as the children all remained in the USA

Edwin Joined Canadian Army 1915 (have some papers, not all details are on-line as yet)

Wife Marion d. 1918 Welland, Ontario, Canada

Re-married 1919 Meggie Jean Mary Moffatt in Newcastle upon Tyne, (In England during war Service)
Son Henry Edwin Packer (my wife’s father) b1922 Niagara Falls, USA

The couple split up as Henry Edwin Packer moved to England as a child (trips show up in ancestry) and Edwin Leonard remained in Canada, but have not found any details for him after this date.



Arthur was on the same ship to Canada but disappeared, as he did not seem to have a Barnardos placement

Arthur married Marion Van Gorder (nee Williams Father: William Williams, Mother Marion Griffiths), born Nanticke, USA in 1914 (witnesses were Mr and Mrs Edwin Packer) certificate on Line.

In 1917, Arthur Packer stated on his Draft Registration in Niagara Falls, New York that he was born in South Wales; that he was married; that he was a night watchman for an electrical company; and that he declared dependency as a waiver to his service in the armed forces.

In 1927 he is listed on a ship from Liverpool to Halifax (ship Scythia), having visited his motor (Mary Ann Thomas – remarried) at 26 Mound Rd, Pontyprid wales. His address was (Wife Mrs M) 826 James Avenue, Niagara Falls (USA??). It also listed he lived in Canada 1901 – 1911, at 56 ½ Wilson Avenue Timmins, Ontario and Passage was paid by Mr Kremans, landed as an immigrant at Canada, trade – Carpenter, listed as married

Then I have no details on him

Any help of the 2 would really assist me in my research
Thanks from down under

(some references on below also)

Chris :)

http://surname.rootschat.com/lexicon/dbsig/dbsig-quick-search.php?dbsig_num=1&researcher_id=265637&view=3231


(On May 20, 1919, Edwin L. Packer crossed into the United States through Niagra Falls, New York. He declared that he was a laborer; that he was widowed; that he was 29 years of age; that he resided in Welland, Ontario; and that he intended to visit his brother Arthur in Lewiston, New York, for a few days visit.)


Births Sep 1891 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------
Packer Edwin Leonard Westbury S 6a 255

Baptism
1891 packer edwin leonard Mother newnham d2689/2/13 Non-conformist


http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/genealogy/Search.aspx


Births Sep 1893 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------
Packer Arthur Westbury S. 6a 247


http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3737556/3737560/42/

(reference Edwin Packer 1896)


http://www.wildot.co.uk/wos_br.htm


30 July 1892 - Gloucester Journal - Gloucester, Gloucestershire, England

THE DIFFERENCES SETTLED.
Edwin Packer, a miner, Littledean, was summoned for committing an aggravated assault upon Mary Ann Packer, his wife, on the 16th inst. - Neither party apeared, and P.S. White said they were now living together again.


22 September 1894 - Gloucester Citizen - Gloucester, Gloucestershire

LITTLEDEAN PETTY SESSIONS.
A NEGLECTFUL HUSBAND. Edwin Packer, of Elton, Westbury-on-Severn, was charged with allowing his wife and three children to become inmates of the Union Workhouse at Westbury-on-Severn. Prisoner was further charged with assaulting his wife on the 13th inst. He was bound over in a £10 bond to keep the peace for six months on the assault charge. The other case was adjourned for a month, prisoner in the meanwhile to pay his wife 8s. per week.


(if another Son)

PACKER William Lusitano (MIDDLECOTE) 2 91

http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/bmd/MainMenu.aspx


Births Sep 1896 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
PACKER William Lusitano Westbury S. 6a 234


11 October 1916 - Gloucestershire Echo - Cheltenham, Gloucestershire

GENERAL DISTRICT NEWS.
Two soldiers - Edwin Leonard Packer, a Canadian infantryman, and Frederick Stockwell, private in the Gloucstershire Regiment, were charged with absenting themselves from their regiments and handed over to a military escort.

http://www.findagrave.com/

(in case anything on above)

Chris :)

Chris, I checked find a grave website , no results.
Your details above are correct.
There were 4 brothers
Edwin Leonard b1891
Frederick b1892
Arthur b1893
William Lusitano b1896 (may have been born after Edwin's Death)

Mary Ann Married Thomas Anthony Jones in 1897

Hubert Jones Born 1898
Thomas Anthony Jones Died 1899

Now 5 children! no husband.

Mary Ann married Samuel Thomas in 1900, and had 9 more children

Then in 1901 Edwin and Arthur were sent to Canada as British Home Children.
Edwin came back to England during the first world war, a lot of BHC came back as service men so they could meet their families.
I have see a news report where he was arrested in England during the war for being drunk.
I do not know if he found his family as he was only 9 when he left for Canada.

It looks like his family went through hell in his younger days.

Arthur must have found his way back as he is listed in Ancestry as returning from England, with this mother as a contact.

Do you have this?

Edwin L Packer

in the 1920 United States Federal Census
Record Image View

View blank form

Name: Edwin L Packer
Age: 28
Birth Year: abt 1892
Birthplace: Wales
Home in 1920: Niagara Falls Ward 13, Niagara, New York
Street: Cleveland Avenue
Race: White
Gender: Male
Immigration Year: 1919
[1918]
Relation to Head of House: Head
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Margaret C Packer
Father's Birthplace: Wales
Mother's Birthplace: Wales
Native Tongue: English
Able to Speak English: Yes
Occupation: Tiertck Tender
Industry: Steam RR
Employment Field: Wage or Salary
Naturalization Status: Alien
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Edwin L Packer 28
Margaret C Packer 30
Jessie H Packer 6

in 1940, Edwin Packer is on the Canadian voters' list (at Ancestry), shown as 'operator'. He is the only occupant shown for the address.

He is at the same address in Welland, 'gentelman' (sic), in 1945.

And again, retired, in 1949. He does not seem to appear after that.

The next election year seems to have been 1953, so it would appear that he died between 1949 and 1953. Ontario deaths for that period will not be publicly available in index form for some time yet but you could apply for a search for a death certificate.

actually in 1921 there is an Edwin Packer living in Welland who is aged 44 (1877) who is maybe more likely the one on the voters' list

he was unmarried and living with a married sister in 1921

so I think we can scratch the Edwin I posted above ...

http://tinyurl.com/hmrvs28

(Niagara Falls Gazette. N.Y.)

(1928 Dies from Pneumonia. One Edwin on above (35), mention of wife Jean, Jessie, Daisy, Harry)

Chris :)

This is daughter Jessie Packer (in the 1920 census posted above) in the 1930 US census

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X4R3-W8G

Name Jessie K Packer
Event Type Census
Event Date 1930
Event Place Niagara Falls, Niagara, New York, United States
Gender Female
Age 16
Marital Status Single
Race White
Race (Original) White
Relationship to Head of Household Maid
Relationship to Head of Household (Original) Maid
Birth Year (Estimated) 1914
Birthplace New York
Father's Birthplace Canada (obviously her misunderstanding)
Mother's Birthplace England
Sheet Letter B
Sheet Number 12

I'm not entirely sure how he managed to have a daughter in NY state in 1913-1914 ...


here we are, her mother was Maria (see image)

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q23C-CG1V

Name Jessie Packer
Event Type Immigration
Event Date 1917 (February)
Event Place New York, United States
Gender Female
Age 3
Birth Year (Estimated) 1914
Birthplace Niagara Falls New York

she was travelling with Maria and destined to uncle Arthur in Niagara Falls

aged 3 yrs 5 months, father Edwin in Welland


She married in 1933 in NY

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KZ9D-PVN

Name William R Ross
Event Type Marriage
Event Date 06 May 1933
Event Place Niagara, New York, United States
Gender Male
Age 22
Birth Year (Estimated) 1911
Father's Name James Ross
Mother's Name Rose Grosso
Spouse's Name Jessie Packer
Spouse's Gender Female
Spouse's Age 19
Spouse's Birth Year (Estimated) 1914
Spouse's Father's Name Edwin Packer
Spouse's Mother's Name Marion Mclean

Jessie in the 1940 census

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K3B7-WZR

Name Jessie Ross
Event Type Census
Event Date 1940
Event Place Ward 9, Niagara Falls, Niagara Falls City, Niagara, New York, United States
Gender Female
Age 26
Marital Status Married
Race (Original) White
Race White
Relationship to Head of Household (Original) Wife
Relationship to Head of Household Wife
Birthplace New York
Birth Year (Estimated) 1914
Last Place of Residence Same Place
William R Ross Head M 29 New York
Jessie Ross Wife F 26 New York
W Ross Son M 6 New York
J Ross Son M 1 New York


husband's obituary

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKPV-934H

Name William R Ross
Event Type Obituary
Event Date 04 Feb 1991
Event Place New York, United States
Residence Place Niagara Falls
Gender Male
Age 80
Occupation Chemist, Treasurer
Birth Year (Estimated) 1911
Birthplace Rochester
Death Date 03 Feb 1991
Death Place Niagara Falls
Newspaper Buffalo News, The
Spouse and Children
Jessie Packer Wife Female
WL Son Male
JF Son Male
RJ Son Male
Parents and Siblings
ET Sister Female
CM Sister Female


I've edited to remove full names of living or possibly living people; they can be seen at familysearch


there are recent residential listings for two sons

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K5J7-7ZJ

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K5JW-4SH

According to this Arthur's wife was Margaret not Marion:

Arthur Packer

in the New York, County Marriages, 1847-1849; 1907-1936

Name: Arthur Packer
Gender: Male
Age: 22
Birth Date: abt 1892
Marriage Date: 2 Mar 1914
Marriage Place: Niagara, New York, USA
Father: John Packer
Mother: Packer
Spouse: Margaret Van Gorder
Film Number: 000897558

Marion/Maria was Edwin's wife ;-)

(the Margaret van Gorder marriage is in the OP)



Here she is entering NY before Jessie's birth

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q23C-CG2K

The image says only 'see record of Albin, Maria'

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q23H-4Y6C

it notes 'reappearance' and nothing more so she may have been refused entry
New York, Northern Arrival Manifests
Name Marion Packer
Event Type Immigration
Event Date 1913
Event Place New York, United States
Gender Unknown

The Jessie Ross/William R Ross is correct.
I think he work as a chemist at Dupont.
I have an Obituary notice for Jessie and some details for Daisy, who married Alfred Harris Lantz in 1933, Towanda, Bradford County, Pennsylvania, USA

Somehow he had a family and may have worked in Niagara Falls area, but was Canadian/British. It seemed like the BHC people may still have been classed as British until later when citizenship was conferred.

The newspaper article looks like Edwin''s death notice.
The children were Jessie, Daisy, Harry (Henry Edwin - always used Harry), so this may be correct. His wife was Meggie Jean so the Jean looks correct.
Just need to find details in Oakwood cemetery,

I love 'finding' things that were not lost ...

Kevin, if you have information about descendants, it's good form to tell us what it is.

If you don't offer it, we assume you don't know it.

When you say you have no details of either brother after the info you gave, it implies that you don't know anything of their children/grandchildren - who of course would be the people who know details of their father/grandfather, so it's contact information for them that is most likely to lead to answers.

I, at least, assume that when someone is looking for info about a deceased relation, they are looking for their families and not just for dates and places to put in a tree.

You're welcome ...

For Arthur, his wife is shown as (certificate on Family search site)
Margaret Van Gorder (nee williams)
born Nanticoke, Pa
age 29,
white
2nd Marriage
Marriage date 2nd March 1914
Widow Yes
Divorced no
Parents:
Father William Williams (born Wales)
Mother Marion Griffiths (born England)
They appear in some census sheets, but difficult to trace as they have common names.

It is interesting with Edwin's wife with the name Albin- Mara, refer to Packer Marian
Looks confusing - has she changed her name?

Marion/Edwin had 2 children in the USA, th, separated from her children, she died in Welland Canada
Daisy seemed to be separated from the family, I found her in another 1920 USA census in a childrens home, so there must have been a a split ar breakup of the family.

Yes, I am looking for any information.
I have a tree in Ancestry and MyHeritage (most upto date, now 10,00 people) with details in it.
When I tried to import this into GR, it came up with an error, so I cant update the GR tree at present
I have a lot of info, but it is difficult to present it all as it
The obituary for Jessie Ross is shown below, that provided my first insight into the family connections:

Jessie H. Ross
Worked at Bell Aircraft in WW II (,
Services will be held Friday for Jessie H. Ross, 72, of 207 74th St. who died Wednesday (Sept. 18, 1985) in Mount St. Mary's Hospital in Lewiston.
A native of Niagara Falls, Mrs. Ross attended local schools and was employed at the Bell Aircraft Corp. during World War II.
She was a member of the altar and Rosary Society and the Senior Citizen Club at St. John de LaSalle Church.
She is survived by her husband, Jessie Ross William R. Ross; sons, William of the Town of Niagara, James of Grand Island and Richard of Niagara Falls; a brother, Harry Packer of Australia; and three grandchildren.
She was the sister of the late Daisy Lantz.
Services will be held at 9 a.m. Friday at the Lane Funeral Home, 8622 Buffalo Ave. and at 9:30 a.m. at SI John de LaSalle Church. Burial will be at Oakwood Cemetery.
Friends may call from 2 to 4 and 7 to 9 p.m. today at the funeral home.
A prayer service will be held at 8 p.m. today at the funeral home.
Contributions to the American Cancer Society are acceptable as tribute.

ROSS Jessie H., of 207-74th Street, in Mt. St. Mary's Hospital, Wednesday, September 18, 1985. Wife of William R. Ross, sister of Harry Packer of Australia and the late Daisy Lantz. Funeral services will be held Friday at 9 a.m. at the LANE FUNERAL HOME, Inc., 8622 Buffalo Avenue and at 9:30 a.m. at St. John de LaSalle R.0 Church.

The 2 notices that Harry (my wifes father) had was enough for me to start research on the family, but there are still the gaps that I am still researching.

Thanks for the help so far.

Kevin, you may have noticed that I expressly edited obituary (and census) details to remove the full names of living people. You have posted an obituary that includes probably living children, in-laws and grandchildren's names.

If you would, delete those names? You have them and that's all that's really necessary.

It's hard to tell what you are wanting help with. You started out having the names of Arthur's and Edwin's children already. Have you made any attempts to get in touch with them or their children?

Edwin's first marriage- I don't think Beatrice died. I think she lied about her age when she married E Packer. (note she's listed as spinster on her second marriage)

Marriage 1:
Name: Beatrice Rule
Age: 18
Birth Year: abt 1892
Marriage Date: 15 Sep 1910
Marriage Place: Welland, Ontario, Canada
Father: Richard Henry Rule
Mother: Bessie Wasley Rule
Spouse: Edward Leonard Packer

Marriage 2:
Name: Beatrice Mand Rule (spinster)
Gender: Female
Age: 28
Birth Year: abt 1896
Birth Place: England
Marriage Date: 16 Apr 1924
Marriage Place: York, Ontario, Canada
Father: Richard Henry Rule
Mother: Elizabeth Wasley
Spouse: Edward Ernest Grimwade
-----------------------------------

Edwin and Beatrice were living apart by 1911 census

Here she is in 1911

Name: Beatrice Packer
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Married
Age: 16
Birth Date: Feb 1895
Birth Place: England
Relation to Head of House: Lodger
Immigration Year: 1902
Race or Tribe: English
Province: Ontario
District: Peel
District Number: 109
Sub-district: 19 - Chinguacousy
Sub-District Number: 19
Place of Habitation: Chinguacousy
Household Members:
Name Age
William Lyons 30
Thomas Williams 42
Elizabeth Williams 39
Beatrice Packer 16
-------------------------------------

And Edwin 1911:

Name: Edward Packer
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Age: 19
Birth Date: Jul 1891
Birth Place: Wales
Relation to Head of House: Lodger
Immigration Year: 1901
Race or Tribe: Welsh
Province: Ontario
District: Brantford
District Number: 57
Sub-district: 29 - Ward 5
Sub-District Number: 29
Place of Habitation: 48 Alfred St
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Smith 60
Margret Smith 53
Eliza Jane Smith 19
James Leslie Smith 18
Arthur Henry Smith 13
Theoador Jones 43
Thomas Carr 33
Joseph Dockstater 28
Hugh Wilson 22
Edward Packer 19
Walter Perkey 44

Also wanted to mention that births for Edwin and Arthur were registered in WESTBURY ON SEVERN not PONTYPRIDD.

Baptism
Name: Edwin Leonard Packer
Baptism Date: 30 Aug 1891
Parish: Newnham
Residence: Broadoak
Father Name: Edwin
Mother Name: Mary Ann Elisabeth

You mention another brother Frederick born 1892 but not seeing a birth- there is this but he has different siblings/ mother's maiden name.

Birth:
PACKER, FREDERICK JOHN mmn: EVANS
GRO Reference: 1892 D Quarter in WESTBURY ON SEVERN Volume 06A Page 243