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"that closes out what I was looking for for Edwin"

Okay, so you weren't actually looking for contact with family then? I think it would take a matter of minutes to contact one of the Ross family in Niagara Falls.


I'm not a tree-builder myself, but of course I meet distant relations who are. I ask all of them not to put myself and my immediate/living relations in theirs, anywhere other than off-line, and not to share such info with anyone else ...

And my preference is not to go hunting for living descendants of people's ancestors unless it is for the purpose of meeting them, not of using them to expand a tree.

ah, that's good then, just out of interest, was that the Marriage for William below?...

Marriages Jun 1919 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------------------
Packer William Vincent Pontypridd 11a 1370
Vincent Rhoda Packer Pontypridd 11a 1370

Chris :)

Sorry for not replying, I have been away for a day, a friends birthday, enjoying the first days of a heat wave in South Australia.
Contact with the family would be good.
The obituary for James Ross matches details I have, but has added a lot of additional information.

The details for Fred packer (or Fred Middlecote) look correct as I could not find his birth, so his father is unknown at this stage. It is likely that he was a nephew as per the 1891 census and continued ti use the packer name until it was noted at his death.

I have details on the son William Lusitano Packer, 1896-1964.

Thanks for the help, that closes out what I was looking for for Edwin.

He might be then, not sure, lol.

Chris :)

Isn't Kevin looking for contact with descendants of Edwin and Arthur who went to Canada?

Are you interested in the Son William, 1896?...

Chris :)

http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3282784/3282786/9/

(1899 Death, Thomas Anthony Jones)

The 1928 death would seem to be correct- and this looks like his wife & son in 1930:

1930 US Census Transcription (surname is Packer on original)

First name(s) Henry E
Last name Packes
Relationship Roomer
Marital status Single
Gender Male
Age 8
Birth year 1922
Birth place New York
Race White
Father's birth place England
Mother's birth place England
City/township Niagara Falls
County Niagara
State New York

England Thomas A Walton Head Married Male 44 1886
England Janet Walton Wife Married Female 40 1890
England Margaret J Packes Roomer Widowed Female 43 1887
New York Henry E Packes Roomer Single Male 8 1922

Fred was either born before their marriage (an illegitimate child of Mary) or was the child of Mary's relative- you would need the certificate to confirm:

Birth:
MIDDLECOTE, FRED - (no mother's maiden name included on GRO)
GRO Reference: 1890 S Quarter in CAMBERWELL Volume 01D Page 806
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Although in 1901 & 1911 he's listed as Stepson, in 1891 he's listed as nephew

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Elton Road, Westbury on Severn, Gloucestershire, England

Edwin Packer Head Married Male 24 1867 Iron Miner Westbury on Severn, Gloucestershire,
Mary Ann Packer Wife Married Female 21 1870 - East Dean, Gloucestershire,
Fred Middlecote Nephew Single Male 0 1891 - East Dulwich, Middlesex,
------------------------------------------------

National School Admission Registers & Log-books
First name(s) Fred
Last name Packer
Birth year 1890
Birth date 22 Jul 1890
Event year 1900
School name Mill Street Board School (boys), Pontypridd
Town Pontypridd
County Glamorganshire
Country Wales
Parent name(s) Mary Thomas
Book type Admissions
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Marriage:
First name(s) FREDERICK
Last name PACKER
Marriage quarter 3
Marriage year 1917
Spouse: MARY NEWMAN
District PONTYPRIDD
County Glamorganshire
Country Wales
Volume 11A Page 1116
--------------------------------------------------------

1939 register (DOB matches school record):

Packer Household (6 People) 3 Canterbury Street , Coventry C.B., Warwickshire, England

Frederick Packer 22 Jul 1890 Male Millwrights Labourer Married
Mary Packer 29 Apr 1894 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married
Mary N Clark (Packer) 07 Nov 1917 Female Aero Wing Coverer Single
Thelma M Treloar (Packer) 14 Apr 1919 Female Capstan Lathe Hand Single
Arthur B Newman 28 Jan 1915 Male Milling Machine Tool Setter Single
Francis Tallan 22 Jun 1906 Male Stonekeeper (Paint Stores) Single
---------------------------------------------

Death:

Name: Fred Middlecote
Birth Date: abt 1891
Date of Registration: Mar 1962
Age at Death: 71
Registration district: Coventry
Inferred County: Warwickshire
Volume: 9c Page: 997

Well that's good! You did see the links I gave to recent residential info for what must certainly be two of Jessie's sons?


https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K5J7-7ZJ

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K5JW-4SH


I tried here (then refine it by first names of the sons)

http://www.whitepages.com/name/Ross/Niagara-Falls-NY

and seem to have found son RJ but since it isn't 'restricted access' (to people in the US) it may be old.

No way to tell without trying the addresses or phone numbers.

Looking for son W, a listing shows up for William R aged 106! (maybe the phone continued to be listed in his name?) but also for a younger one.

Too many of those results are 'restricted access' ... maybe a member here who is in the US could access them.


ah wait. Obituary of son JF Ross:

http://www.lanefuneralhome.com/memsol.cgi?user_id=1307153

It indicates that the other two sons were still living in 2014. Quite a few names there for trying to trace!

JoonieCloonie, I am trying to find any information on Edwin and Arthur and their families, and to make contact if possible.

Thanks for the note on the Obituary, I have deleted a couple more names.
The marriage to Beatrice Rule was a surprise as I saw it on rootschat but had not seen any evidence of it.
Frederick Packer may have been born in London, as he is found in the 1901 wales census, but the transcription in Ancestry shows (his mother has remarried, was Mary ann Thomas)

Name: Frederick Packer
Age in 1901: 10
Estimated birth year: abt 1891
Relation: Stepson
Mother: Mary Ann Thomas
Gender: Male
Where born: London, England
Civil Parish: Pontypridd
Town: Pontypridd
Ecclesiastical parish: Pontypridd St Catherine
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales

You mention another brother Frederick born 1892 but not seeing a birth- there is this but he has different siblings/ mother's maiden name.

Birth:
PACKER, FREDERICK JOHN mmn: EVANS
GRO Reference: 1892 D Quarter in WESTBURY ON SEVERN Volume 06A Page 243

Also wanted to mention that births for Edwin and Arthur were registered in WESTBURY ON SEVERN not PONTYPRIDD.

Baptism
Name: Edwin Leonard Packer
Baptism Date: 30 Aug 1891
Parish: Newnham
Residence: Broadoak
Father Name: Edwin
Mother Name: Mary Ann Elisabeth

Edwin's first marriage- I don't think Beatrice died. I think she lied about her age when she married E Packer. (note she's listed as spinster on her second marriage)

Marriage 1:
Name: Beatrice Rule
Age: 18
Birth Year: abt 1892
Marriage Date: 15 Sep 1910
Marriage Place: Welland, Ontario, Canada
Father: Richard Henry Rule
Mother: Bessie Wasley Rule
Spouse: Edward Leonard Packer

Marriage 2:
Name: Beatrice Mand Rule (spinster)
Gender: Female
Age: 28
Birth Year: abt 1896
Birth Place: England
Marriage Date: 16 Apr 1924
Marriage Place: York, Ontario, Canada
Father: Richard Henry Rule
Mother: Elizabeth Wasley
Spouse: Edward Ernest Grimwade
-----------------------------------

Edwin and Beatrice were living apart by 1911 census

Here she is in 1911

Name: Beatrice Packer
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Married
Age: 16
Birth Date: Feb 1895
Birth Place: England
Relation to Head of House: Lodger
Immigration Year: 1902
Race or Tribe: English
Province: Ontario
District: Peel
District Number: 109
Sub-district: 19 - Chinguacousy
Sub-District Number: 19
Place of Habitation: Chinguacousy
Household Members:
Name Age
William Lyons 30
Thomas Williams 42
Elizabeth Williams 39
Beatrice Packer 16
-------------------------------------

And Edwin 1911:

Name: Edward Packer
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Age: 19
Birth Date: Jul 1891
Birth Place: Wales
Relation to Head of House: Lodger
Immigration Year: 1901
Race or Tribe: Welsh
Province: Ontario
District: Brantford
District Number: 57
Sub-district: 29 - Ward 5
Sub-District Number: 29
Place of Habitation: 48 Alfred St
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Smith 60
Margret Smith 53
Eliza Jane Smith 19
James Leslie Smith 18
Arthur Henry Smith 13
Theoador Jones 43
Thomas Carr 33
Joseph Dockstater 28
Hugh Wilson 22
Edward Packer 19
Walter Perkey 44

Kevin, you may have noticed that I expressly edited obituary (and census) details to remove the full names of living people. You have posted an obituary that includes probably living children, in-laws and grandchildren's names.

If you would, delete those names? You have them and that's all that's really necessary.

It's hard to tell what you are wanting help with. You started out having the names of Arthur's and Edwin's children already. Have you made any attempts to get in touch with them or their children?

Yes, I am looking for any information.
I have a tree in Ancestry and MyHeritage (most upto date, now 10,00 people) with details in it.
When I tried to import this into GR, it came up with an error, so I cant update the GR tree at present
I have a lot of info, but it is difficult to present it all as it
The obituary for Jessie Ross is shown below, that provided my first insight into the family connections:

Jessie H. Ross
Worked at Bell Aircraft in WW II (,
Services will be held Friday for Jessie H. Ross, 72, of 207 74th St. who died Wednesday (Sept. 18, 1985) in Mount St. Mary's Hospital in Lewiston.
A native of Niagara Falls, Mrs. Ross attended local schools and was employed at the Bell Aircraft Corp. during World War II.
She was a member of the altar and Rosary Society and the Senior Citizen Club at St. John de LaSalle Church.
She is survived by her husband, Jessie Ross William R. Ross; sons, William of the Town of Niagara, James of Grand Island and Richard of Niagara Falls; a brother, Harry Packer of Australia; and three grandchildren.
She was the sister of the late Daisy Lantz.
Services will be held at 9 a.m. Friday at the Lane Funeral Home, 8622 Buffalo Ave. and at 9:30 a.m. at SI John de LaSalle Church. Burial will be at Oakwood Cemetery.
Friends may call from 2 to 4 and 7 to 9 p.m. today at the funeral home.
A prayer service will be held at 8 p.m. today at the funeral home.
Contributions to the American Cancer Society are acceptable as tribute.

ROSS Jessie H., of 207-74th Street, in Mt. St. Mary's Hospital, Wednesday, September 18, 1985. Wife of William R. Ross, sister of Harry Packer of Australia and the late Daisy Lantz. Funeral services will be held Friday at 9 a.m. at the LANE FUNERAL HOME, Inc., 8622 Buffalo Avenue and at 9:30 a.m. at St. John de LaSalle R.0 Church.

The 2 notices that Harry (my wifes father) had was enough for me to start research on the family, but there are still the gaps that I am still researching.

Thanks for the help so far.

For Arthur, his wife is shown as (certificate on Family search site)
Margaret Van Gorder (nee williams)
born Nanticoke, Pa
age 29,
white
2nd Marriage
Marriage date 2nd March 1914
Widow Yes
Divorced no
Parents:
Father William Williams (born Wales)
Mother Marion Griffiths (born England)
They appear in some census sheets, but difficult to trace as they have common names.

It is interesting with Edwin's wife with the name Albin- Mara, refer to Packer Marian
Looks confusing - has she changed her name?

Marion/Edwin had 2 children in the USA, th, separated from her children, she died in Welland Canada
Daisy seemed to be separated from the family, I found her in another 1920 USA census in a childrens home, so there must have been a a split ar breakup of the family.

I love 'finding' things that were not lost ...

Kevin, if you have information about descendants, it's good form to tell us what it is.

If you don't offer it, we assume you don't know it.

When you say you have no details of either brother after the info you gave, it implies that you don't know anything of their children/grandchildren - who of course would be the people who know details of their father/grandfather, so it's contact information for them that is most likely to lead to answers.

I, at least, assume that when someone is looking for info about a deceased relation, they are looking for their families and not just for dates and places to put in a tree.

You're welcome ...

The Jessie Ross/William R Ross is correct.
I think he work as a chemist at Dupont.
I have an Obituary notice for Jessie and some details for Daisy, who married Alfred Harris Lantz in 1933, Towanda, Bradford County, Pennsylvania, USA

Somehow he had a family and may have worked in Niagara Falls area, but was Canadian/British. It seemed like the BHC people may still have been classed as British until later when citizenship was conferred.

The newspaper article looks like Edwin''s death notice.
The children were Jessie, Daisy, Harry (Henry Edwin - always used Harry), so this may be correct. His wife was Meggie Jean so the Jean looks correct.
Just need to find details in Oakwood cemetery,

Marion/Maria was Edwin's wife ;-)

(the Margaret van Gorder marriage is in the OP)



Here she is entering NY before Jessie's birth

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q23C-CG2K

The image says only 'see record of Albin, Maria'

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q23H-4Y6C

it notes 'reappearance' and nothing more so she may have been refused entry
New York, Northern Arrival Manifests
Name Marion Packer
Event Type Immigration
Event Date 1913
Event Place New York, United States
Gender Unknown