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I am officially annoyed with myself. I CANNOT find this marriage with any permutation I can think of.

JOHN GIBBONS to ELIZA E. GIBBONS - yes, they had the same surname.

Here is their firstborn:
Emily Kate Gibbons born 18th April 1875 at 21 Caroline Street, London to John Gibbons, Groom Domestic Servant, and Eliza Emily Gibbons formerly Gibbons all of 21 Caroline Street, Pimlico.

I have found EEG in a couple of censuses [I think] but it is their marriage we're after, please.

And please, please don't waste your valuable time and kindness in looking up their offspring, etc. We have all that.

But if you can find John Gibbons going back, that would be good too. He was a Groom.

Once we've nailed their marriage and I can order the MC, then I can nail her father, etc.
Thank you.

Just putting this for places of birth and ages.


1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
13, Landseer Street, Battersea, Wandsworth, London, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
John Gibbons Head Married Male 39 1842 Coachman (Domestic Servant) Banbury, Oxfordshire, England
Transcription
Eliza E Gibbons Wife Married Female 37 1844 - London, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Emily K Gibbons Daughter Single Female 5 1876 Scholar London, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Eleanor Gibbons Daughter Single Female 0 1881 - Battersea, Surrey, England


1891 has Eliza a widow and born in Mayfair, Middlesex.

For helpers' info -
John Gibbons was born Banbury c1842, and Eliza in London:

John Gibbons
in the 1881 England Census
Name: John Gibbons
Age: 39
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1842
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Eliza E. Gibbons
Gender: Male
Where born: Banbury, Oxfordshire, England
Civil Parish: Battersea
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 13 Landseer St
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Coachman (Domestic Servant)
Registration district: Wandsworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 54
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 649
Folio: 93
Page Number: 30
Household Members:
Name Age
John Gibbons 39
Eliza E. Gibbons 37
Emily K. Gibbons 5
Eleanor Gibbons

Suggestion for John in 1861. Kings Sutton isn't far from Banbury.

John Gibbons
in the 1861 England Census
Name: John Gibbons
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: 1842
Relation: Son
Father's name: Charles Gibbons
Mother's name: Ann Gibbons
Gender: Male
Where born: Kings Sutton, Northamptonshire, England
Civil Parish: Kings Sutton
County/Island: Northamptonshire
Country: England
Registration district: Brackley
Sub-registration district: Brackley
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 81
Piece: 922
Folio: 47
Page Number: 15
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Gibbons 47
Ann Gibbons 46
John Gibbons 19 - servant
Thomas Gibbons 17
George Gibbons 12
William H F Gibbons 10
Charles E Gibbons 8
Amy Gibbons 5

I would say this is Eliza's birth. There is also one in Clerkenwell in the same year.


England & Wales births 1837-2006 Transcription

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First name(s) ELIZA EMILY
Last name GIBBONS
Birth year 1843
Birth quarter 2
Registration month -
Mother's last name -
District ST. JAMES WESTMINSTER
County London
Country England
Volume 1
Page 96

ArgyllGran: thank you and can you see JG in 1871 please?? If he is still single in that census, then we can narrow down the date for their marriage hopefully. :-)

Alviegal: looking good for EEG, thanks.

John Gibbons
in the Northamptonshire, England, Church of England Baptisms, 1813-1912
Name: John Gibbons
Birth Date: 9 Mar 1842
Baptism Date: 10 Apr 1842
Baptism Place: Kings Sutton, Northamptonshire, England
Age: 0
Parish as it Appears: Kings Sutton
Register Type: Parish Registers
Father: Charles Gibbons
Mother: Ann Gibbons


This could be his birth:

Births Jun 1842 (>99%
GIBBONS Male Brackley 15 207


Can't see that John in 1871 so far, but here he is in 1851:


John Gibbons
in the 1851 England Census
Name: John Gibbons
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1842
Relation: Son
Father's name: Charles Gibbons
Mother's name: Ann Gibbons
Gender: Male
Where born: Kings Sutton, Northamptonshire, England
Civil Parish: Kings Sutton
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Northamptonshire
Country: England
Street address:
Registration district: Brackley
Sub-registration district: Brackley
ED, institution, or vessel: 1a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 1
Piece: 1735
Page Number: 1
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Gibbons 37
Ann Gibbons 36
Edwin Gibbons 12
John Gibbons 9
Thomas Gibbons 7
Emma Gibbons 5
George Gibbons 2

I don't really think this is him, but I'll post it just in case. It's the nearest I can find re YOB and birth county:

John Gibbons
in the 1871 England Census
Name: John Gibbons (Private, 4th Foot)
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1843
Gender: Male
Where born: Daventry, Northamptonshire, England
Civil Parish: Chester
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Registration district: Chester
Sub-registration district: Chester Castle
ED, institution, or vessel: Chester Castle Barracks
Household schedule number: 1
Piece: 3724
Folio: 44
Page Number: 8

A tree on ancestry has this for John.


John Gibbons

1842–1896

Birth ABT 1842 • Banbury, Oxfordshire, England

Death 16 DEC 1896 • Helmdon, Northamptonshire, , England




Parents

Charles Gibbons
Charles Gibbons

1814–1896
Ann Sumners

1815–1883


Birth
abt 1842 • Banbury, Oxfordshire, England

1842

(AGE)
Birth of Brother Thomas Gibbons(1844–1896)
1844 • Kings Sutton, Northamptonshire, England

1844

1
Birth of Sister Emma Gibbons(1846–1904)
abt 1846 • Kings Sutton, Northamptonshire, England

1846

4
Birth of Brother George Gibbons(1849–1840)
14 Feb 1849 • Sutton, Northamptonshire, , England

1849

7
Birth of Brother William H F Gibbons(1851–1939)
abt 1851 • Kings Sutton, Northamptonshire, England

1851

8
Residence
1851 • Kings Sutton, Northamptonshire, England

Relation to Head of House: Son

1851

9
Birth of Sister Amy A Gibbons(1856–1904)
26 Nov 1856 • Sutton, Northamptonshire, , England

1856

14
Residence
1861 • Kings Sutton, Northamptonshire, England

Relation to Head of House: Son

1861

19
Birth of Daughter Emily Kate Matseder(1876–1953)
abt 1876 • Pimlico, London, England

1876

33
Birth of Daughter Eleanor Gibbons(1878–1955)
abt 1878 • Battersea, Surrey, England

1878

36
Residence
1881 • Battersea, London, England

Relation to Head of House: Head; Marital Status: Married

1881

39
Death of Mother Ann Sumners(1815–1883)
29 Oct 1883 • Sutton, Northamptonshire, , England

1883

41
Death of Father Charles Gibbons(1814–1896)
10 Mar 1896 • Sutton, Northamptonshire, , England

1896

54
Death of Brother Thomas Gibbons(1844–1896)
16 Dec 1896 • Northamptonshire, United Kingdom

1896

54
Death
16 Dec 1896 • Helmdon, Northamptonshire, , England

Can't see Eliza in 1871 either, but here she is (probably) in 1861 (Alviegal has posted 1881 earlier):

Eliza E Gibbons
in the 1861 England Census
Name: Eliza E Gibbons
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: 1844
Relation: Visitor
Gender: Female
Where born: London, England
Civil Parish: Sutton
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Registration district: Epsom
Sub-registration district: Carshalton
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 15
Piece: 418
Folio: 112
Page Number: 3
Household Members:
Name Age
Emma Campion 46
Sarah Campion 44
Frederic Wm Campion 38
Eliza Campion 34
Eliza E Gibbons 17
Elizbth Brown 13

I'm pretty sure that this is his Death details:
Name: John Gibbons
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1842
Registration Year: 1882
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 40
Registration district: Lambeth
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District

Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d
Page: 230

We know that he died in the Royal Mews, kicked by one of the horses - oh dear. And left his wife with three young daughters.

Thought:
Am I right in thinking that if the BC for their first born names the mother as 'formerly' Gibbons, then that is deffo her maiden name?
Or is there a chance that the 'formerly' is from a previous marriage .......... ????

Perhaps it's simply that they didn't marry.
I certainly can't see any sign of a marriage - assuming her maiden name's Gibbons.

Thank you all so far.
:-)

may be look for any earlier marriage for John??

Living common-law was at least as common back then as now, with one of the reasons being a previous marriage of one or both spouses and the inability to obtain a divorce for anyone other than very rich people.

IF John's father was Charles Gibbons, and IF Charles was a tailor, then this MIGHT be a prior marriage for John

London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

Name: John Gibbons
Spouse: Lucy Stallard
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 8 Oct 1865
Parish: St Paul, Bermondsey
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: Charles Gibbons
Spouse Father: William Stallard
Register Type: Parish Register

from image:-

John
Bachelor
Of Full Age
Occupation:- Groom
Address:- Bermondsey
Father occupation:- Tailor

Lucy
Spinster
Of Full Age
no occupation shown
Address:- (I think it says "Ditto", ie, Bermondsey)
Father occupation:- Coach Builder

Witnesses:- James Holmes and Elizabeth Butler (her mark) (I think it is Butler)

ancestry is acting up, but the 1851 Census on FMP shows that father Charles is a Tailor ............

Charles Gibbons Head Married Male 37 1814 Tailor Kings Sutton, Northamptonshire,
Ann Gibbons Wife Married Female 36 1815 Over Worton, Oxfordshire
Edwin Gibbons Son Male 12 1839 Scholar Kings Sutton, Northamptonshire
John Gibbons Son Male 9 1842 Scholar Kings Sutton, Northamptonshire
Thomas Gibbons Son Male 7 1844 Scholar Kings Sutton, Northamptonshire
Emma Gibbons Daughter Female 5 1846 Kings Sutton, Northamptonshire
George Gibbons Son Male 2 1849 Kings Sutton, Northamptonshire

Maybe?

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Boughbeach, Chiddingstone, Sevenoaks, Kent, England


Household Members

John Gibbons Head Married Male 52 1799 Annuitant Oxfordshire, England
Emma Gibbons Wife Married Female 39 1812 - Marylebone, Middlesex, England
Eliza Emily Gibbons Daughter - Female 7 1844 - St James, Middlesex, England
William Gibbons Son - Male 1 1850 - Chiddingstone, Kent, England
Henry Chatfield Servant Unmarried Male 20 1831 Servant Domestic Sussex, England
Susan Pocock Servant Unmarried Female 20 1831 House Servant Hever, Kent, England

?????

John Gibbons, Widower, Full Age, Gentleman
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 11 May 1844
Marriage Place: Saint James,Paddington,London,England
Father: George Gibbons, Gentleman
Spouse: Emma Clark, Spinster, Full Age, Father John Horne Clark, Auctioneer
FHL Film Number: 579638