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All searched out..As above,have 4 Barrett children all born in Holborn, all mothers maiden name Hoare, first in 1931 and last in 1943...I know the mother was known as Nelly and has gt grandchild named after her. why can't I find a marriage ? limited search of 1939 also drawn a blank?

Hi all,
I am after some help again..
I received the Marriage Cert for George Hoare and Alice Ada Reading.
They married on the 24th December 1917 in Holborn. George aged 33, Bachelor, Occ looks like Horsekeeper and Alice aged 32, Widower, Occ Sewing machinist.
They both lived at 24 Doughty Mews.
This is the best bit..George Hoare father was William Hughes (yes Hughes) it's very clear ?? William Hughes, deceased, Bricklayer.
The witnesses were Kate Hodges and Albert Hatswell.
Really need some help finding George Hoare with father William Hughes.

George may be illig. and just knows who his father is - he could
just live with his mother -- but we can try.

Mavis

Going by the date of birth on 1939, this should be the one ?

Births Dec 1884 (>99%)
Hoare George Clement St. Olave 1d 327

The only other possible is:

Births Mar 1885 (>99%)
Hoare George Ross 6a 486

Following the first one which seems more likely because of the area, we have:

Name: George Clement Hoare
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 4 Mar 1885
Father's name: James John Hoare (Tanner)
Mother's name: Emily Hoare
Parish or Poor Law Union: Rotherhithe All Saints
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers

Born 7th December, 1884 !! (NOTE - the date of birth is slightly out ??)
Address: 23 Dilston Grove.

This appears to be that family on 1901:

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
16, Stevens Street, Bermondsey, St Olave Southwark, London, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
James J Hoare Head Married Male 43 1858 Tanner Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Transcription
Helen Hoare Wife Married Female 40 1861 - Rotherhithe, Surrey, England
Transcription
Emily E Hoare Daughter Single Female 21 1880 Maid At Guys Hospital Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Transcription
George C Hoare Son Single Male 16 1885 Army Work (Port) Rotherhithe, Surrey, England
Transcription
Helen C Hoare Daughter Single Female 14 1887 - Rotherhithe, Surrey, England
Transcription
Annie S Hoare Daughter Single Female 12 1889 - Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Transcription
Rose F Hoare Daughter Single Female 8 1893 - Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Transcription
Elsie M Hoare Daughter Single Female 6 1895 - Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Transcription
Minnie L Hoare Daughter Single Female 3 1898 - Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Transcription
Leonard B Hoare Son Single Male 0 1901 - Bermondsey, Surrey, England

Also at bottom of above on image is Eliza Hoare, Head, wid. 62, charwoman, b.Lambeth
+ Mary Connor Head, wid., 49, Fur? worker, b. London Bro' - both seperate households but all in the same property.


? - 'probable' marriage:

Marriages Jun 1879 (>99%)
Billingham William St Saviour Southwark 1d 22 Scan available - click to view
Colvin Elizabeth St.Saviour 1d 22 Scan available - click to view
Hoare James John St.Saviour 1d 22 Scan available - click to view
SPURLING Emily Helen St. Saviour 1d 22 Scan available - click to view

BUT no explanation so far as to where William Hughes comes in !!!

He 'does' have a sister Helen (Nellie ??) though.

Dea x


EDIT - I have followed both of those births through and there is absolutely no connection to a William Hughes !!

Dea x

Thanks for your replies, I am so disappointed that the marriage cert has not helped at all. George's death record says he was born in 1881 but marriage cert and 1939 says born 1884?? Convinced that George was from the Holborn area but can't see anyway of finding him or parents.
Where do I go from here? Thinking he must have been married before the 1917 marriage to Alice as he was 33.
I keep coming back to the 1911 census in Bromley, where Thomas George Hoare was married to Mary Victor and all but the last child was born in Holborn.
This Thomas George Hoare had a sister Nelly born 1878 in 1881 census, Southwark.I think I maybe clutching at straws but have no where else to look.

Nelly born in 1878 could not have been he mother to children born between 1831 to 1843 !!!

Dea x

EDIT - Sorry, that should have read 1931 to 1943 ;-)

Dea x

I may be suffering from info overload but don't understand your last reply Dea ?
Could someone please look up the 1891 and 1901 census household for Thomas and Isabella Hoare born 1857 and 1860, 1891 in Bloomsbury and 1901 in St Giles in the field. Particularly interested in the relationship with Elizabeth Victor born 1880 in the 1901 St Giles census.

Dea is saying that someone born in 1878 would have been 53 when first child born and 65 when last child born.....not impossible but very unlikely

Jude

Sorry I see now, confused by the 1831 to 1843 instead of 1931 to 1943.
With regards to Nelly, the friend I am searching for is now not sure whereabouts Nelly is in the family and just assumed it was her grandfather George's sister!!
I argee with Dea that this Nelly is far to old to have a child in 1935.
But I have just found a marriage in 1901, Edmonton (not far off) for a Nelly Hughes Hore.. It fits that she is the older sister born 1878 of Thomas George Hoare born 1881. Surely it is to much of a coincidence that the name Hughes has come up again.

Your George Hughes/Hoare found some facts for you that
may help -- possible 2 marriages 1 definite

this one I think is definite

26 Nov 1911 Christ Church - Camden

George Hughes 28y bat. Soldier .22 Little Edw. St fath. William Hughes dec. Bricklayer
Louisa Carter 35y spin. ------------ " -------" ----- " fath. Thomas Carter Soldier

wit A W Butler and R Butler

---------------------------------------------
this one could be

23 Feb 1908 St Paul - Lorrimer Sq. - Southwark

George Hughes 24y Bat. Soldier . 2 Chapter Ter. fath. William Hughes dec. traveller
Ada Mary Oates 21y sp. ------------ " ------" ----- " fath. Frederick John Oates. Baker

wit Nellie Oates and Henry Frederick Powell Oates

1911 Ada is living with father as Housekeeper with daughter Kathleen

Did George change his surname to Hoare because of these marriages or perhaps
he left the Army under a cloud

needs some one with more knowledge of army records than I have to try and find him

But at least we now know that he was still known as Hughes in 1911

Mavis :-) :-) :-) :-)

Well done, looks very promising.
Never had so much hassle with a tree.
Thanks to everyone for your help.

The Nellie Hughes Hore marriage has father George Hore Shipwright...and she was 26.

It's this birth I think

Name: Nelly Hughes Hore
Registration Year: 1875
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration district: Medway
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: Kent
Volume: 2a
Page: 469

Jude

Alice Ada's first husband Walter William Reading was a carman before he went into the army (and died in WW1)...

In those marriages that Mavis posted George is a soldier. And in 1939 he is a car washer...I wonder if he met Alice Ada through the military?

What happened to her children with Walter (in 1911 they have two)?

Jude

I have been following this George (I don't know if he is the one yet though):


1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Shillington Street, Battersea, Wandsworth, London, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
William Hughes Head Married Male 33 1858 Bricklayer Kempsey, Worcestershire, England
Transcription
Emma Hughes Wife Married Female 32 1859 - Amberley, Worcestershire, England
Transcription
George W Hughes Son - Male 9 1882 Scholar Kilburn, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Emily A Hughes Daughter - Female 4 1887 Scholar Kilburn, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Florence Hughes Daughter - Female 2 1889 - Kilburn, Middlesex, England


Name: George William Hughes
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 28 Aug 1881
Father's name: William Hughes - Bricklayer
Mother's name: Emma Hughes
Parish or Poor Law Union: Kilburn St Mary
Borough: Camden
Register Type: Parish Registers
at 74 Denmark Rd,

According to his army records he had joined in 1899 then Deserted in 1901, brought back and convicted of Desertion and made to serve the remainder of his 8 years service. - Sent to India 1901 - 1907.

He was finally discharged in June 1911.


British Army Service Records 1760-1915 Transcription
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First name(s) GEORGE WILLIAM
Last name HUGHES
Birth year 1881
Birth parish KILBURN
Birth town LONDON
Birth county MIDDLESEX
Birth country ENGLAND
Service number 35145
Rank -
Regiment Royal Artillery
Document Type Attestation
Attestation year 1899
Attestation Day 24
Attestation Month 5
Attestation age years 18
Attestation age months -
Attestation Corps Royal Artillery
Attestation service number 35145
Discharge Corps Royal Artillery
Series WO97 chelsea pensioners british army service records 1760-1913
Box 5177
Box Record Number 121
Record set British Army Service Records 1760-1915
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Subcategory Regimental & service records
Collections from Great Britain

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
26, Speke Road, Battersea, Wandsworth, London, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
William Hughes Head Married Male 42 1859 Bricklayer Battersea, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Emma Hughes Wife Married Female 41 1860 - Battersea, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Florence Hughes Daughter - Female 13 1888 - Battersea, Middlesex, England

Dea x

this is George William Hughes in 1911

George William wife Catherine

Last name
Hughes

Relationship
Head

Marital status
Married

Sex
Male

Occupation
Bricklayer

Age
29

Birth year
1882

Birth place
Kilburn Lond

Marriage year
1908

Years married
3

Address
96 Tooting High St S W

Parish
Wandsworth Borough

Thanks Mavis - that seems to have blown 'that one' out of the water then :-( :-(

Dea x

think he must have still been in the Army - if we believe the 1911 marriage -
might have gone through 1914-1918

keep plodding away

Mavis

I think he was stationed at 'home' in the' Reserves' from 1907 - June 4th 1911 when he was discharged ??

No mention of a marriage on the Army record though.

Dea x

The George William born 1881 in Kilburn,he had a sister Emily Rose who married 7/6/1908 he was a witness.

I wonder if you could compere his signature with 1911 census and other marriages etc.

Maryb.

I have been doing that Mary but I can't really can't be sure that it is the same one.

I have compared it with the army records signature too but still not sure. :-(

Dea x